Wellbutrin

Yes all very interesting, the mechanisms of WB versus SSRI.

I have been on stims for ADHD for 20 years and I also take Wellbutrin for depression, but it doesn’t do shit for my ADHD if I missed a few days of amph, or cause any appetite suppression or weight loss but for those without a long history of amphetamines, Wellbutrin is more likely to put some pep in your step and also you may lose weight.
I forget which dose is better for depression and which is better for ADHD. But there is also the SR vs ER thing.

A Virgin ADHD brain - one not tainted by years of drug use - may find WB very helpful for focus and all that but one good thing I’ve found is it doesn’t make me gain weight. Unlike the demon Lexapro did and took me 8 months to get my metabolism untucked.

Oh and a virgin brain (or at least not a brain that’s been through the wringer) may also find it to be somewhat euphoric. Or so Ive heard. Ooh to be so lucky to create this Reddit thread: “Does WB make anyone else feel like Superman?” 😂
 
Yes all very interesting, the mechanisms of WB versus SSRI.

I have been on stims for ADHD for 20 years and I also take Wellbutrin for depression, but it doesn’t do shit for my ADHD if I missed a few days of amph, or cause any appetite suppression or weight loss but for those without a long history of amphetamines, Wellbutrin is more likely to put some pep in your step and also you may lose weight.
I forget which dose is better for depression and which is better for ADHD. But there is also the SR vs ER thing.

A Virgin ADHD brain - one not tainted by years of drug use - may find WB very helpful for focus and all that but one good thing I’ve found is it doesn’t make me gain weight. Unlike the demon Lexapro did and took me 8 months to get my metabolism untucked.

Oh and a virgin brain (or at least not a brain that’s been through the wringer) may also find it to be somewhat euphoric. Or so Ive heard. Ooh to be so lucky to create this Reddit thread: “Does WB make anyone else feel like Superman?” 😂

This is not absolutely suggested or anything, but there is something called Ephedrine, I mentioned it Earlier in the Thread. There are Drug Interactions where the Enzymes for Ephedrine and the Enzymes for Wellbutrin, are Blocked by the Other. So, You take Wellbutrin and it Blocks the Breakdown of Ephedrine, so Your Ephedrine Bloodlevels stay Higher for longer. Then if You take Wellbutrin, or take them at the same Time, the Ephedrine Blocks the Breakdown of the Wellbutrin. Now, there is Plenty of Evidence that Wellbutrin can cause Seizures, there are a Good number of Erowid Entries about Wellbutrin and then there are Articles like one for example calls Wellbutrin “The Poor Man’s C0caine” and talks about someone that was Snorting the Pills, Crushed up, and they had a Seizure, at which Time the Doctors Discovered that this was the Cause. And the Bloodlevels are what Cause Seizures.

And there is Research on Ephedrine, People have Heart Attacks, it is now Found as “Bronkaid” which is behind the Counter in America, so You have to be 18 to Buy it and they Scan Your ID to see how often You are Buying it because it is used to make Mthamphtamine. Ephedrine is related to Psuedo-Ephedrine, which is in Sudafed which is more well known as a M3th Ingredient. But if You are actually taking the Pills You aren’t doing anything Wrong. Ephedrine is also Found in Ephedra Grass, Mormon Tea it is called, and the Mormons use this because Caffeine is banned for Mormons. Again, this Substance does Cause Heart Attacks, it used to be all over the Place. This stuff kind of Works as a Miracle Diet Pill because You can not Eat for Hours and Hours, and You don’t Feel Hungry at all. You can go 12-24 Hours without Eating Easily by eating a Bronkaid or a half a Bronkaid every 4 Hours or so. It isn’t like Caffeine, which acts on the Xanthene Receptors, and instead Ephedrine Works on Dopamine and Norepinephrine. You can Fail and Drug Test for M3th from taking Ephedrine, and for that Matter Wellbutrin can actually show up as Amph3tamines in a Urine Test. This stuff was Regularly used in Gyms to make Working out more Enjoyable and to give the person Energy, etc, it is an Actual Performance Enhancing Drug, it Clears the Airways. It has been a Miracle Asthma Cure since the 50s, and that is why Bronkaid exists, it is still Legal to Sell it as Asthma Medicine. But over the Last 20 Years the FDA banned Ephedrine for use in Weightloss and Workout Supplements, because of the Number of Heart Attacks Caused by Ephedrine use in America.

I just want to Point out that this exists, and also anyone using the Raw Grass to make Tea should be Careful if also using Wellbutrin, and just be Careful Generally. Bronkaid exists after nearly 2 Decades of Heavy Regulation, it is Dosed at Very Safe Levels. You can Safely take even like 4 Bronkaid Pills at a Time after You take a Half of one or 1 to Test, or after a few Tests, not that You need 4, but the Point is that it’s Safe enough to do so. The Tea made from the Grass could be much more Potent depending how much Grass You use.
 
I have been taking Wellbutrin, as Prescribed, on and off now for about 6 Months, most of the Time I was not taking it, but I don’t notice a massive difference between using it and not. I do notice however that it does, as a Cathinone should, work similar to Caffeine but usually when taken by itself it actually causes a Period of Sleepiness before the stimulant effect. It seems, based on how it Works (so this is an Educated Guess), that what is happening is that the Dopamine and Serotonin Reuptake action causes a Person to feel Tired, as like Marijuana would, then the stimulant effect takes over later. And this is taken as Prescribed, Extended Release, I have bitten and broken it maybe 3 Times and didn’t notice a huge Difference.

This would be similar to how Thorazine Works, but Thorazine also has a Anti-Histamine effect if I’m not mistaken, and has an opposite activity profile to Wellbutrin. Thorazine Blocks Dopamine, but that causes a Spike in Dopamine Production leading to a Period of what many People describe as a Good Feeling, then it causes Sleep (an effect of Anti-Histamines and Dopamine), then it levels out Dopamine levels to a lower amount because it’s Blocking it and the Body finishes the spike in Dopamine Production.

Mixed with Ephedrine (usually Ephedrine First or at the same Time) 25mg, sometimes another Ephedrine dose later also, it definitely Works to help with Long Work Shifts. You could probably stay awake for Days, though I haven’t done that.

I usually Smoke Marijuana but haven’t been because of some Drug Tests I have to take for a while, and I have been using Mucuna Puriens occasionally and there aren’t really any problems, not that Marijuana is addictive but there is like Dopamine Syndrome and Things to be kind of concerned about so I thought I would mention it. I have thought about Adding Echinacea for CB Receptor purposes but have not done that.

I will be taking L-Methylfolate (which I have taken before) and Strontium soon, but that may not be of interest to some on this Forum, except that L-Methylfolate has Studies related to Depression and Schizophrenia related to Hair Loss that is kind of interesting.
 
I would also like to Add, that while I haven’t been taking large amounts, or snorting the Wellbutrin, I would like to add the comment that Wellbutrin and Ephedrine taken in these amounts, wouldn’t have much Recreational Value. I could see someone using it for Work, maybe as a Performance Enhancing Drug, but in these amounts I would not say there is a Recreational Value, it’s not Euphoric, You could maybe say that it is depending on the Person, but I didn’t have any kind of Euphoric Rush or anything like that. And again, I’m just taking it as Prescribed and used Small amounts of Ephedrine.

Now, with the Enzyme activity of both having kind of like a Nutmeg Enzyme Profile (there are 2 Molecules in Nutmeg, one is spelled like Mystricin, and the 2 Molecules taken alone do nothing, but together they give Nutmeg the ability to make You feel Drunk), I would assume that there is some kind of “Oilahuasca” that can be made with this.

From Dr. Sasha Shulgin in the Book “PIHKAL”:

This is a material that might be a contributing factor to the pharmacology of nutmeg. The major essential oil from that spice is
myristicin, and it is the easiest source of MMDA. It has been reported that the passage of this oil through the liver of a rabbit will generate MMDA in that animal. The only difference between the two molecules, structurally, are the elements of ammonia.
Myristicin plus ammonia gives MMDA. Another natural source of myristicin is Oil of Parsley, which is also an excellent source of
apiole, mentioned under DMMDA
. A rumor that had currency in the 1960’s, that parsley could get you high, probably had its origins in the reports of myristicin being present, coupled with myristicin being the principal source of MMDA. The relationship to myristicin (an essential oil) led to the classifying of MMDA as an Essential Amphetamine. These relationships are expanded upon, under TMA.
 
I want Everyone to take a look at Anti-Depressants. We have all heard of SSRIs causing Women to say God told them to drown their Children, or put their Baby in the Oven, when they stopped taking their SSRI, and I want everyone to understand how some of these Work, and get into the Biochemistry. First, the Theory being used with these Drugs is the “Brain Chemistry Theory”, where we assume that Mental Health issues come from an imbalance of Brain Chemistry. The Theory so being that if Serotonin is Low then a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI) will Raise the Levels of Natural Serotonin, thereby balancing out an otherwise Low Serotonin imbalance. It’s the same Theory as Schizophrenia Medication which does the Opposite and Lowers Dopamine and Serotonin Levels, as Hallucinations come from Activity in those Parts of the Brain. There used to be Anti-Depressants that worked as MAOIs, a lot of Medication was like Seroquel and Xanax or Valium do Today, and they would kind of numb the Emotions, kind of Sedate a person, like Thorazine, the main class was Barbituates and now Benzos are the most Common. Anti-Depressants were MAOIs though. MAOIs work on kind of the Ayahuasca Theory and we can compare all of these SSRIs and Ayahuasca, etc to Peyote also. Ayahuasca contains MAOIs and DMT, Peyote contains just Mescaline. The Brain Balance Theory then usually is being used with Reuptake Inhibitors, not Agonists like Peyote (which not just inhibits Reuptake, but Acts on the Receptors itself). And knowing that these Medicines are working this way, we can add to them, for example Melatonin can be taken at Night, as well as 5-HTP, or L-Dopa, etc, and all of this would expand on the Brain Chemistry Theory.

Anti-Depressants
So let’s get into how the work and make another comparison there are SSRIs, SNRIs and SDNRIs and Amphetamine and Phenidate, I mention those 2, which are Adderal and Ritilin, to make the Point that these Anti-Depressants, particularly the SDNRIs, are “Triple Reuptake Inhibitors”, so they are comparable to Amphetamine, Methyl-Amphetamine (Methamphetamine) and Phenidate and Methylphenidate, but those themselves are Prescription Medications and so are themselves actually Different. Wellbutrin for example, to make the Point, is a Triple Reuptake Inhibitor, does help Suppress Appetite, and also helps with Depression, may be Habit Forming, and could lead to Withdrawals if You stop taking it, but it is not Meth, or Cocaine, it is its own Thing. Then there are the SSRIs which are much weaker, and less Stimulating, as the N in SDNRI and SNRI is “Norepinephrine” and Epinephrine is Adrenaline, like an Epi Pen, so the Norepinephrine Reuptake means Your Adrenal System uses all of its Materials. Comparing Wellbutrin to ADHD Medication, Wellbutrin is more like Strattera than Adderal. Strattera is a Non-Stimulant ADHD Med that works much like Anti-Depressants but was never approved for Treating Depression.

So these should be used by People that need these Things. People with Deficiencies, as like Restless Leg Syndrome where You actually need Dopamine to sleep because of an imbalance, there are People that need this. And I share this so they can find what they need.

And lastly, Mucuna Puriens, Velvet Bean Seeds contain all that You would need to help increase effectiveness of the Medication. Then there is also Chacruna, which contains DMT but is not active without an MAOI, so in a Tea form for example alongside just Mucuna and say Wellbutrin, it would just add to the Serotonin System. There is also Ephedrine, which is a Asthma Medication, but if You mix it with Wellbutrin You could have a Seizure. Ephedrine should be used by itself, or in extremely low Doses. What it does is the same as Methamphetamine or Amphetamine also, except is also does the Releasing Part. Anti-Depressants just let You use all of Your own Supply, Ephedrine Adds to the Supply of Dopamine and Norepinephrine, so it Adds that extra Part. This could cause a Seizure though, so People taking Wellbutrin, Strattera, etc, should be very Careful with Ephedrine because their Brain Chemistry is Changed by the Wellbutrin and the Strattera, and it could be like 5x to 10x as Strong for You, than it would be for someone who was not taking Reuptake inhibitors.

I want Everyone to know about this, because there is:

1. A fear based on Stories of New Mothers killing Babies, that is maybe not such a well founded fear
2. Abuse, so People should know what it’s for and then also know that abuse, like Snorting can cause Seizures, and in many cases is more Painful than other substances.

And lastly, Medications like Remeron and Doxepine could also be added for Night to help with Sleep, unless You like Seroquel which also adds Dopamine. Seroquel in my opinion is just too Drowsy all Day all the Time. But I Hope this Helps some People, and Helps People Help People, as maybe You could suggest something to Help someone You know.
A fear of actual murder is unfounded but these drugs can have serious long term effects lasting years after stopping use. Often a type of agitation or akathisia can start and sometimes remain for years after tapering. It can also be a very frustrating position to be in because doctors are often not aware that this can happen. Over the last 15 years I've seen more and more papers on this and psychiatrists making youtube content about it but it's still not well known.
They have helped a lot of people as well. You just have to be cautious.

The best explanation of this is in a series of articles by Stuart Shipko. The best summary of the risks are here:

I found this to be extremely accurate to what I experienced with ~9 years on Effexor and countless add-ons given to fix the issue.
"With the SSRIs, it is not so much a tardive movement disorder as a tardive problem with akathisia, a sort of constant restlessness or agitation that is accompanied by an agitated anxious/depressed state. It is a very uncomfortable sensation.

Not only do some patients stopping SSRIs develop a variant of tardive akathisia, a percentage of the patients who develop this problem will find that reinstating the SSRI will not alleviate the problem and may actually make the problem worse.


The difficulties that occur when patients stop SSRIs, particularly after 5 or more years on the drug, have not been fully acknowledged by physicians and citizen scientists alike. "
 
A fear of actual murder is unfounded but these drugs can have serious long term effects lasting years after stopping use. Often a type of agitation or akathisia can start and sometimes remain for years after tapering. It can also be a very frustrating position to be in because doctors are often not aware that this can happen. Over the last 15 years I've seen more and more papers on this and psychiatrists making youtube content about it but it's still not well known.
They have helped a lot of people as well. You just have to be cautious.

The best explanation of this is in a series of articles by Stuart Shipko. The best summary of the risks are here:

I found this to be extremely accurate to what I experienced with ~9 years on Effexor and countless add-ons given to fix the issue.
"With the SSRIs, it is not so much a tardive movement disorder as a tardive problem with akathisia, a sort of constant restlessness or agitation that is accompanied by an agitated anxious/depressed state. It is a very uncomfortable sensation.

Not only do some patients stopping SSRIs develop a variant of tardive akathisia, a percentage of the patients who develop this problem will find that reinstating the SSRI will not alleviate the problem and may actually make the problem worse.


The difficulties that occur when patients stop SSRIs, particularly after 5 or more years on the drug, have not been fully acknowledged by physicians and citizen scientists alike. "

I have actually noticed this, I didn’t take the Meds for like 4 Days and there was a kind of feeling that can only be described as uncomfortable. No matter if I was sitting, standing, or how I laid down, I could not get Comfortable. It was weird.

Then I realized “I didn’t take those Pills for like 4 Days”, so I took 2, and I was so Comfortable that I had to take a Nap at Work sitting up in a chair. I felt like Sleeping.

And it was a Completely Comfortable Feeling. Like, when I was uncomfortable I couldn’t do anything, and all I wanted to do was Sleep because it was the only Time I wouldn’t have that Feeling. I literally thought I was like in despair almost, like I thought I was having some kind of Feeling of regret, or something, I was literally wondering what I could do to fix whatever in my Life was giving me this Feeling, and maybe it was just the Bed, and the Train Station, and the Seats on the Train. Then I took the Pills, and it literally made it where like I had to Sleep, but in a Different way. Like the Word I’ve been using is that I got “Addicted”. But You’ve put some actual thought into this and did the Research, it’s Good to know there are some Words to Describe it at least. I thought I was just Addicted to these Pills now. And that is Possibly part of it, but what You are Talking about is very Real.
 
This is HIGHLY NOT RECOMMENDED, because People will overdo it and can have Seizures or Heart Attacks.

But I’ve been taking Wellbutrin Regularly and adding Ephedrine via BronkAid during long Work Shifts over the Weekends, and I Work the Night Shift, and I have been getting Tired still. So a few Times now I have added Caffeine, again NOT RECOMMENDED, THIS IS DANGEROUS, YOU CAN DIE DOING THIS. I drank one of the large resealable Monsters once and I drank Coffee a few Times. So not trying to Kill myself or anything, but I would say even the Monster was too much even drank over a few Hours, and not directly after the others but closer to the End of the Shift (I did a 28 Hour Shift). And I want to bring this up for a Reason.

Caffeine has effects on CYP450 Enzymes and is effected by them just like Wellbutrin and Ephedrine are.

Inhibition:
  • CYP1A2:
    Caffeine inhibits CYP1A2, which is the enzyme that primarily metabolizes it.

  • CYP3A4:
    In vitro studies have shown that caffeine can inhibit CYP3A4, but this effect is not usually seen at typical caffeine consumption levels in vivo.
Induction:
  • CYP1A2:
    Caffeine is an inducer of CYP1A2, meaning it can increase the expression and activity of this enzyme, potentially leading to faster caffeine metabolism with regular consumption. However, this induction effect is more pronounced in rats than in humans, with studies suggesting that caffeine from typical coffee consumption may not significantly induce CYP1A2 in humans.

  • Other Enzymes:
    Caffeine can induce the expression of genes like cyp-35A family genes in Caenorhabditis elegans, but this is not directly relevant to human CYP enzymes


My favorite Quote about Oilahuasca is about someone who mixed like Nutmeg, Vanilla, Cinnamon and Coffee, and said it was like a Psychedelic Experience. This being by ingesting Allylbenzenes and Activating and Inducing CYP450 Enzymes. Nutmeg does this itself, it’s how the whole Nutmeg Drunkeness Works if You have ever heard of anyone getting Drunk on like 5 Grams of Nutmeg or whatever.

Another way to visualize this is that Michael Jackson died using Propofol, which is a Drug that is so Quickly Metabolized by Enzymes and such, that not only Works through Injection, and then only continues to Work if it is Steadily and Continuously added to the Bloodstream, and Michael Jackson Died doing this, they say his Doctor who was Paid to Monitor him left the Room and he Died. Now, Thyme, the Cooking Spice, the Herb, contains a Molecule called “Thymol” that is Closely related to Propofol. And Theoretically, Enzymes could be Induced and Inhibited to make Thymol, or Propofol, Highly Active through Oral Ingestion.

I say all that to say that Some people have reported Psychedelic effects from Mixing just Coffee, Almond, Cinnamon, Vanilla and Nutmeg. Wellbutrin is a Cathinone, meaning it is related to Substances like Mephedrone. Wellbutrin could be used in some Serious Mixtures. And I just wanted to Report, when I feel kind of like awake but Tired still on Ephedrine (very small doses) and Wellbutrin, Coffee or Monster seemingly adds Caffeine which is effected by the CYP450 Effects of Ephedrine and Wellbutrin. Sasha Shulgin had a more simple understanding and called it “TOMSOing” or “Piggybacking” in the Book PIHKAL. The Caffeine has its effect of jitteryness and wakefullness and like even wanting to get up and do something, but it is kind of all maybe even exaggerated we could say. It all takes less Caffeine for the Effects maybe as well, for the exaggerated effects.

And I just wanted to make this Report for the World, since this Thread has a lot of this Enzyme Information. I’m not sure there is another Place on the Internet that Talks about Wellbutrin and the effects of CYP450 Enzymes in the context of a Report, or Oilahuasca. And I am very Interested in Helping People create New Oilahuasca Mixtures. In other Words, Psychedelic combinations that can’t be Banned, and that are made with Household Herbs used for Cooking. This also kind of expands on the idea of Pharmahuasca, which is usually a completely different concept involving DMT and MAOI Anti-Depressants.
 
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