Benz

[SwedishChef1977]

Need some friends that have the same needs benzodiazapam ......Without it I wouldnt even b able to work,Im a local uprising Executive Chef work 70 hours totally a level 10 stress level..i am prescribed .05 k pins for the past 3 years and my doc doesnt care that they no longer work.....Said find someone else yea he cares

 

[ronix]

then my best advice to you is to seriously find someone else.

you sound like a respectable, hardworking human being. Just because he was an asshole doesn't mean other doctors wont help you.

Trust me, I know plenty of ph.D's who feel your pain on a 70hr work week with high stress level. 

You have the medical history of being prescribed a benzo for 3 years.

Doctors realize that tolerance develops, and it sounds like you're recently getting more stress in your life, so a doctor will understand if you need to increase dosage or switch meds.

yes you can find benzos online cheap and easy and without a script, but if you have a serious need it really should not be too hard to get them.

well, if you have insurance at least, which it sounds like you do. the main reason most of us are on here is lack of insurance

 

[doesit]

Lack of insurance ? you do know that benzos cost about 20$ per 100-500mg depending on benzo in pharmacy,for manufacturers to make them its more like 0.01c per mg.

People choose IOPs because no doctor in their right mind wont prescribe anyone 2-4mgs for more then 3-4 weeks.So what happens then is people feel that meds do work on them,but they are cut of them so,to feed the habit one has to look other way,and in time that habit turns into addiction.Thats the hard reality.

 

[SwedishChef1977]

No I have a lack in full coverage,but get in @Samaritan Hospital psychology,work payment plans out,but now thousands in debt from it ......

 

[headbanger]

Welcome Zonk, be careful with dem benz. I had problems with them in the past. Took em for anxiety but they got the best of me. I was having bad panic attacks but  luckily my doc and I talked about it and now I take 100 mg of zoloft/day which really helps the anxiety and depresssiom too.I take xanax occassiona;y but only keep a very small amout on hand.

 

[Frank White]

hooter1, on 23 Apr 2013 - 18:00, said:

Take it from a guy who Benzos have helped for a LONG time....8 + years. Everyone knows that their effectiveness will reduce over time, Once upon a time in Cali. (they have very generous medical care there) I was up to 4-6 mg a day. The hard reality is that once in awhile you just HAVE to detox. Go cold turkey for just a couple of weeks, then after you no longer feel like you're going to die, I promise, the 1 mg will do the trick again.

The prob I have these days is that no doc (different State) will rx for more than a couple months, that's where a now defuct IOP came in handy...(go no more than 6 - 12 months), then detox....Have been healthy and holding steady on .5 to 1 mg day for about 3 years now doing this. As headbanger says, be careful with this, you DO NOT want to come off a 6mg a day habit. In extreme dosage, coming off the hard way could actually kill you

I know everyone's problems are different, but I cant see how any rational person would place themselves in this type of situation, and if you need to blame your doctor then IMO it's rather sad. Benzo dependence and withdrawal is fairly publicly known as one of the worst that there is. Why anyone willingly place themselves in a position to face that level of anxiety? If the pleasure of eating benzos is that 'worth it' to you then I think maybe there's a discipline issue.
The pharmaceutical industry is the most profitable industry in the US today. They have no concern about consumers and if you're unaware of their influence on physicians, both directly and indirectly (over 70% of medical texts studied in US universities are funded entirely by pharma corporations), then you have a bit too much faith in the current 'system'. My point is that doctors will prescribe not only without concern for your long term well-being, but also without proper knowledge as they've most likely never taken these drugs and the FDA testing is skewed (for example when alps or Xans were first tested there was a 90 day trial period, thus people who have taken the drug daily for years are living experiments for its long-term effects). Recently in my life, I had a doc try to prescribe a young family member the common ailment for ADHD: rit_alin. I had to pry out of him with questions what the active ingredient in the drug actually is, which is speed, or amphet_a_mine. Pretty awkward situation once he had to try to persuade a mother to give their 9 year old child speed on the daily... and this kind of thing happens thousands of times everyday in the States.

 

[Frank White]

hooter1 I don't wanna requote and create some mega post, so, in reply, I think that maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to express. I'll attempt to break it down -- and I really don't intend to be derisive here. You said "[a] long time ago, in a land far away I visited a doc for anxiety and this shaking thing. They rx'd benz's. After awhile they didn't work well anymore, so the doc upped the dose. This went on for awhile untill I wanted to try to just be "normal" again." What you just described is the process of physical addiction through dependence, further proven when you said, "[w]ell holy crap I got hit by a ton of bricks" essentially alluding to painful the withdrawal process I assume.

You then said, "[a]t the time, not only did I not know these were addictive, I knew nothing of what a BZ was." This to me is admitting that you ingested a substance multiple times a day, for an extended period of time without researching what that substance consisted of, or what effects it would have (long-term or short-term). I would be interested in the justification of this process as rational.

I'd like to now refer back to what I had stated: "My point is that doctors will prescribe not only without concern for your long term well-being, but also without proper knowledge as they've most likely never taken these drugs and the FDA testing is skewed..." and also "[t]he pharmaceutical industry is the most profitable industry in the US today. They have no concern about consumers and if you're unaware of their influence on physicians, both directly and indirectly (over 70% of medical texts studied in US universities are funded entirely by pharma corporations)."

Keeping that in mind, you said next "I went about a year without during which I went through the long list of rx's (Insert a dozen things here) but none of them came close to helping." Well, if those were prescribed by your doctor, then maybe what I claimed has some truth... Next what you said "[m]y advise to this dude was intended to bring light to the fact that you may be getting really, seriously, addicted without even knowing it." Since you said previously said that "[a]fter awhile they didn't work well anymore, so the doc upped the dose" I'm guessing that you now 'know' it. In general reference to my point, so will anyone who realizes the way the lovely pharmaceutical industry works and thus decides to do some research before committing to a prescription. Lastly, you said that "at this point, whenever I feel the need to take more and more, I take a couple of weeks, suffer through and detox myself, all the while continuing to live as human like as possible." My best possible response to that statement was what I said earlier: "I know everyone's problems are different, but I cant see how any rational person would place themselves in this type of situation, and if you need to blame your doctor then IMO it's rather sad. Benzo dependence and withdrawal is fairly publicly known as one of the worst that there is. Why anyone willingly place themselves in a position to face that level of anxiety? If the pleasure of eating benzos is that 'worth it' to you then I think maybe there's a discipline issue."

I don't think I misunderstood you, but maybe I didn't illustrate myself well enough. I welcome any further questions you have about my clarity.

And to Robin Hood; the last thing I want to do is offend you or anyone else on this forum. This place is miraculous and I look to you as a real leader with influence around here. I have unfortunately had too much experience with OC when they were still salt based (snortable). I choose to put myself through the cycle of physical addiction a few times knowing full well I was taking pharmaceutical grade her-o-in and what the effects would be. Now when I come across that drug family, I choose not to indulge in such a way. Additionally, I did not know that benzos came about as a solution for barbs. IMHO, that has to do with the way the 'system' works; it offers synthetic solutions for natural problems, and sometimes more synthetics to counteract things. Like maybe also methadone treatment for her-o-in.

Again, I don't wanna make anybody mad or butthurt, I have no medical background or anything...really just another dude ranting on some forum ha.

 

[Frank White]

I have immediately realized that this ^ is a megapost. I'm sorry.

 

[Guest]

I will be your friend zonked up!  This is one of my many needs as well!

 

[Boo Radley]

Well FW why are you here then?  If you are anti ADD meds, anti benzo and don't want PK's because you have addiction to them whey are you here?  To find antibiotics?  It just seems like you're very anti med.  Thats cool but why join a site who's main goal is to help people with information on the aquisition and usage of said meds?

Dont get me wrong.  You are welcome here.  Just curious why you want to be.

 

[ps2556]

ive had a benzo problem for 12years and met done for 4 only just now trying to get off th met script but its not easy, i think people do benefit from benz if genuinely required but for social kicks its not a good idea thats hw mine started nw ive got a serious problem an no doctor will put me back on a script so i hav 2 get them myself.

just thought id share.

 

[Frank White]

Well FW why are you here then?  If you are anti ADD meds, anti benzo and don't want PK's because you have addiction to them whey are you here?  To find antibiotics?  It just seems like you're very anti med.  Thats cool but why join a site who's main goal is to help people with information on the aquisition and usage of said meds?

Dont get me wrong.  You are welcome here.  Just curious why you want to be.

Not sure why I came off as anti- any meds, let me try to explain myself a little better.

Boo, do you ever believe everything someone tells you, swallowing it completely whole without questioning it yourself? I certainly hope not. A member above had an experience were he sought out a doctor for some perceived health problems. This doctor gave him a pill to take to relieve his symptoms. Whether it worked or not, this individual continued to take to medication regularly, until an increase in dosage was needed due to a build in tolerance. The increases apparently continued until the member wanted to feel "normal", so he quit and experienced harsh physical and mental withdrawal. If we take time to educate ourselves on what we're regularly taking, this situation^ is completely avoidable to me, and I know this from personal experience. I feel like that illustrates "why join a site who's main goal is to help people with information on the aquisition and usage of said meds", especially in regards to the usage aspect. Also I'm here to acquire what I want for whatever it is I want it for, like everyone else I assume.

Thank you very much for letting me know I am welcomed, despite my 'radical' opinions at times.

And to ps2556: I am genuinely sorry that you're in that situation, but we do all have a free will.

 

[Guest]

Guys gals take it easy. Its a discussion forum there is no nead to act like you are 18 & about to get in a corner brawl!
Chill out a bit maybe take a val!
Cheers

 

[Boo Radley]

Lol RH! No Val's! Bad news! Must meditate and yoga or something. In redneckville "something" is skunk weed

 

[FrankieGirl]

Hey all,

Lets not forget one thing: A "long time ago" there were those of us, over an age that shall not be publicly stated here, ;-) that DID trust our doctors as the end all be all, simply because the internet, as it exists today, did not exist.

Today we have information at our fingertips that we did not have back then...in our homes, our cars and on our handheld phones while walking down the street. We also have TV programs that show the "reality" of things that again, just 25-30 short years ago did not exist.

My point being, don't assume that someone CHOSE to not educate themselves about something they were using, it could simply be that education / information was not as readily available at that time as it is today. Especially if they say "a long time ago". When I started using pharmaceuticals, the PDR was about all the info there was for the general population...and society simply trusted the man in the white coat to do what was in our best interest!!

Not so anymore, but the story is there to tell; the "damage done"...

FG

 

[Frank White]

This would have been more clear to you if the lengthy post I made on pg 39 had not been deleted. Not only do you come across as being anti pharma, explaining how they all but force docs to use their drug, but you further attack my character, acusing me of "blaming" anyone, based on a very simple explanation of how events unfolded. You further lecture on how I should have educated myself to the point that I know every effect an rx might have as a result of using said med, then, in the same paragraph, you explain that the docs themselves don't understand the effects, thereby expecting me to know more about the effects than a doctor.

Then, and then, the best part of your retort, is that you resorted to using quotes from my "second" explanation to reinforce the invalid points you attempted to make in the first post, as if to illustrate why you were right to begin with, even before you had any of the information from the second post.

THEN you try to appear to take the high road in describing how you understand that everyones problems are different (even though you have NO idea about my life), but then you immediately go south with the statement

implying that I'm not rational because I sought help from a doctor.

In the end, all I really got from you is that I'm uneducated, or undereducated, irrational, and sad.

Although you explain that you don't want to offend anybody?

Holy shit Frank. FUCK YOU.

I'll stop here before.......................................

Sadly, my post from the air mail thread was deleted; thankfully we can continue here.

So according to you I "come across as being anti pharma, explaining how they all but force docs to use their drug". Well, I am personally against the pharmaceutical industry, the health insurance industry, and, in many situations, feel that doctor's use the ignorance of their patients to their advantage. This is why I use the board for info on how to circumvent the system, especially without having any health insurance plans, like many Americans. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "accusing you of 'blaming'... but it would probably help if that original page 39 post was still around. Next, I did not lecture, I more or less labelled you a complete fucking retard for putting something down your throat, multiple times a day without doing any research on your own. I mean, youe genius fucking mind ate the same pills day after day, and then ate more when the dosage didn't work until your tolerance was so high that quitting cold turkey was a withdrawal-nightmare. Anyone with any bit of common sense would have understood this process, as it was occurring, as physical dependence. Not you apparently. I've seen doctors prescribe benzo's, pk's, and amphets to people and never once heard them explain 'this is what the effects will be, both daily, and long-term'-- hence why I stressed educating oneself on some of these issues. It may come as a shock to someone so slow, but most of the texts that doctors use in medical school, are actually available to the public!! And of course if that's too much work for you, then you can find plenty of credible sources on the wonderful internet. Additionally, someone like you is not capable of knowing more than any doctor, anywhere, and therefore you should continue to blindly accept everything they tell you to do as if it were a vital truth; I mean, your benzo prescribing doctor obviously cared so, so much about your long-term well-being, as your withdrawal story shows us.

"Then, and then, the best part of your retort, is that you resorted to using quotes from my "second" explanation to reinforce the invalid points you attempted to make in the first post, as if to illustrate why you were right to begin with, even before you had any of the information from the second post." Now I'm just guessing what you're trying to say here is this: that I made a reply to your original post (in this thread) and then when you replied back to me (also in the above thread), that I used points from your "second explanation" in order to further explain what I had previously stated beforehand. In what way is that illogical?? Especially when your "second explanation" literally starts with this sentence: "I actually don't know how you got to this based on what I thought I said, but I'll try to make it clear"... you were further explaining the same point you had already made, you just included more personal details Einstein.

In your original post you said "[o]nce upon a time in Cali. (they have very generous medical care there) I was up to 4-6 mg a day. The hard reality is that once in awhile you just HAVE to detox. Go cold turkey for just a couple of weeks, then after you no longer feel like you're going to die, I promise, the 1 mg will do the trick again." In reply to that, I said: "I know everyone's problems are different, but I cant see how any rational person would place themselves in this type of situation, and if you need to blame your doctor then IMO it's rather sad. Benzo dependence and withdrawal is fairly publicly known as one of the worst that there is. Why would anyone willingly place themselves in a position to face that level of anxiety? If the pleasure of eating benzos is that 'worth it' to you then I think maybe there's a discipline issue." IMO blaming a doctor for this situation is rather sad and IMO maybe there is a discipline issue. And again, in my opinion, I cant see how a rational person would put themselves in this^ situation. I was not implying that you're irrational because you went to a doctor for a health issue, you dumbass.

I do understand everyone's problems are different: for example, I understand your problems led you to eat benzos daily, gradually increasing the dosage to about "4-6 mg a day", according to you, until you quit and went through withdrawal. Something an educated, intelligent person would have seen coming a mile away. And I understand that about you, "even though have NO idea about [your] life", because you spelled it out on an internet message board open to the public.


 


In the end, all I really got from you is that you're definitely super-educated, even over-educated maybe, logical, and rational. 


Oh and I have now meant to offend you, retard. You'll  "stop here before......................................." what exactly? 

 

[Jewbacca]

Alright gentlemen, I believe that both parties have had their point - counterpoint opportunity, and I don't see anything further that is going to be accomplished here other than a profanity-laden, name-calling flame war. In the interest of preventing all parties from incurring the ire of admin and the various unpleasant options available to him, I'm going to ask that we move on peacefully and end this dialogue. Agreed?

Jewy

 

[Frank White]

Hey all,

Lets not forget one thing: A "long time ago" there were those of us, over an age that shall not be publicly stated here, ;-) that DID trust our doctors as the end all be all, simply because the internet, as it exists today, did not exist.

Today we have information at our fingertips that we did not have back then...in our homes, our cars and on our handheld phones while walking down the street. We also have TV programs that show the "reality" of things that again, just 25-30 short years ago did not exist.

My point being, don't assume that someone CHOSE to not educate themselves about something they were using, it could simply be that education / information was not as readily available at that time as it is today. Especially if they say "a long time ago". When I started using pharmaceuticals, the PDR was about all the info there was for the general population...and society simply trusted the man in the white coat to do what was in our best interest!!

Not so anymore, but the story is there to tell; the "damage done"...

FG

FG, you seem very nice and are obviously a seasoned veteran on this board. I don't mean to offend you with my reply.

Did books not exist a "long time ago" ? Such as in libraries, especially collegiate and university ones where educational medical texts (the same one's that the med students would be using) are sold and rented out? I know I sound like a smart-ass and for that I'm sorry. But the internet not existing isn't really a valid excuse. And TV programs about "the 'reality' of things....It was in 1964 that America was 'stunned' when the Surgeon General told the US that the big tobacco companies dumped tar and refined nicotine (amongst other chemicals) onto their products making them thousands of times more addictive and deadly!

If you "trust our doctors as the end all be all" you are CHOOSING not to educate yourself. That's a fact; you are saying you choose to believe, or once believed, everything doctors told you without attempting to educate yourself. If someone is somehow in the rare situation of living in some remote mountain region, miles away from cultivated towns, and therefore wouldn't be able to get educational access to the sources I'm alluding to, well then it would be mostly, not entirely, their prescribing doctors fault. Hence why I early stated my general distrust and skepticism of the entire industry (here in the States)..

 

[Frank White]

Jewbacca:

Yeah I'm not about to argue with you or any mod. Point taken and agreed.