Best legal or Quasi Legal MDMA substitute

[ethereal]

Hello everyone! I thought I would kick off my first post in the forum with a question I don't hear too much anymore:

What do you consider to be the best legal or quasi legal (in the USA that is) MDMA substitute??

My old personal favorite was Butylone back when it was still legal, but if sadly that one has become scheduled now. I also heard good fairly things about Eutylone for minute there. However, please correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard rumors that is apparently scheduled now as well?

MDAI also seems like it could be a winner, but unfortunately can't seem to find it available anywhere. Only other one I can think of off the top of my head is MDPiHP, which I am still working up the nerve to try, as I was'nt particularly fond of MPDV and some of its other cousins back in the day.

Anyways, I thought it would be nice to hear some other people's opinions on the matter, so looking forward to seeing what pops up!

Cheers!

 

[sadophyte]

MD-pyrrovalerones will be close bit to put it poetically MDMA is a lovers embrace and gentle imtimate sexual experience and PVs are a fetish specialist sex workers grand climax fiasco act,
There are few if any stimulamtw with enough DAT+SERT actiom without equally powerful NET action. Other users may have better answers but i suggest personally to try MDPM or ParaMeOBZP with antihypertensive agents as those were close enough for a coworker of mine. I used to just illegally score my M and Sally but i grew out of that kind of experience and prefer meth or phentermine by a longshot these days.
Hope this was atleast not un-helpful
Good luck mate

 

[ethereal]

Yeah since the original post, I have tried the MDPiHP, which I felt was indeed too much like MDPV. I have also been considering 5-APB and MDPM as possible alternatives. A lot of people say MDPM is quite mild in intensity though, have you found this to be the case? And have you tried 5-APB? 5-MAPB sounds like it would be perfect bit I can't seem to find it anywhere. unfortunately.

 

[sadophyte]

Yeah since the original post, I have tried the MDPiHP, which I felt was indeed too much like MDPV. I have also been considering 5-APB and MDPM as possible alternatives. A lot of people say MDPM is quite mild in intensity though, have you found this to be the case? And have you tried 5-APB? 5-MAPB sounds like it would be perfect bit I can't seem to find it anywhere. unfortunately.

MDPM is mild and only worthwhile IV with a mild benzo like oxaz or an anti hypertensive IME.
4-MPM IV oral or freebase out an oilburner is better. LFRC sells both
I Have yet to try benzofurans

 

[ethereal]

What 4-MPM dose would you suggest for someone with an average stim tolerance if it was being taken either oral or insufflated? Just trying to get an idea of its potency for comparison to 5-APB. Thanks for all your info btw

 

[sadophyte]

What 4-MPM dose would you suggest for someone with an average stim tolerance if it was being taken either oral or insufflated? Just trying to get an idea of its potency for comparison to 5-APB. Thanks for all your info btw

75 to 125 nasal, 100mg repeated if freebased in an oil burner or 50mg using a crack pipe, 75 to 100mg IV. Those are the only ROAs i can attest to, nasal will eT your nose to bits and dont miss a shot. Also duration is alot shoter than M

 

[82Xskc]

the 5-abp that was being passed around as 6-apb by bjc had all the side effects associated with mdma at psychonaut's "strong" doses. it probably produces an almost identical high. i thought 3c-p was like 5-apb but with more psychedelic effect and undesirably long legs. notwithstanding, i don't recommend any of these chems. they are too toxic for frequent use and therefore dangerous as sold in multiple gram quantities for a relative pittance.

i'd recommend 5-apb over 4-mpm for the simple fact that you have more reports on 5-apb over the last 10 years in comparison to the much less known 4-mpm.

 

[ethereal]

I have also heard speculations that 4-MPM is presumed to be quite neurotoxic based upon its initial structure, so I am a little hesitant to take the jump on that one even though I do hear positive reports as to its overall effects.

On another note, how would you compare the potential neurotoxicity of 5-APB to regular MDMA? I have heard it's supposed to be somewhat less due to the lack of a certain metabolite, but just wondering how much protection the absence of this element would actually account for in a real world scenario.

Based upon the limited availability of 5-MAPB, I am thinking 5-APB would be my next most viable candidate, assuming I can hopefully dig up a little more info on that pesky neurotoxicity issue................

 

[82Xskc]

Based upon the limited availability of 5-MAPB, I am thinking 5-APB would be my next most viable candidate, assuming I can hopefully dig up a little more info on that pesky neurotoxicity issue................

a bluelight thread mentioned that it's a good idea to assume neurotoxicity and cardiotoxicity for 5 and 6-apb are on par with mdma or, more likely, mda. adjust your dosage frequency accordingly and enjoy.

the thread also discussed a more likely than not probability that the most widely accepted metabolic culprit behind mdma induced neurotoxicity is not the primary neurodegenerative cause after all. the exact mechanism for neurotoxicity remains a mystery. additionally, it's worth noting (simply because nobody else talks about it) that frequent long-term mdma users presented with clinically significant cardiac valve abnormalities, according to one paper. i have no reason to think 5-apb is any less cardio-toxic than mdma, it's possibly more so. i have a compulsion to mention "frequent long term use" dangers only to warn those who are chasing the mdma euphoria but have little or no experience with cheap and 98% pure research chem equivalents.

 

[ethereal]

a bluelight thread mentioned that it's a good idea to assume neurotoxicity and cardiotoxicity for 5 and 6-apb are on par with mdma or, more likely, mda. adjust your dosage frequency accordingly and enjoy.

the thread also discussed a more likely than not probability that the most widely accepted metabolic culprit behind mdma induced neurotoxicity is not the primary neurodegenerative cause after all. the exact mechanism for neurotoxicity remains a mystery. additionally, it's worth noting (simply because nobody else talks about it) that frequent long-term mdma users presented with clinically significant cardiac valve abnormalities, according to one paper. i have no reason to think 5-apb is any less cardio-toxic than mdma, it's possibly more so. i have a compulsion to mention "frequent long term use" dangers only to warn those who are chasing the mdma euphoria but have little or no experience with cheap and 98% pure research chem equivalents.

I would have to agree, and gratefully appreciate the warning! Unfortunately, I have learned the hard way that all of these entactogenic substances require nothing but the upmost caution and respect.

Careless MDMA usage in the early 2000's has done things to my brain that I have still barely recovered from. I completely let it go around 2003 because the toll on my body and mind had become so great, and haven't done it again since. Admittedly I do absolutely LOVE the rolling experience, but the unfortunate reality with MDMA is that it also takes more than it gives.

I did have a fair amount of experience with earlier alternatives (aka cathinones): 4-MEC, M1, BK-EBDB, BK-MBDB, etc., the cumulative use of which has seemingly amounted to less than maybe 10% or so of the long-term side effects that I experienced with MDMA. While this is by no means perfect, I must acknowledge that it certainly provides a far more ideal alternative to MDMA than the actual substance itself.

These days I allow myself no more than one experience per year with a one of these or a similar compound, in order to revisit that feeling I have come to love so much. Honestly, this frequency is about the most I can rationalize as being within the realm of general safety given the long-term consequences of my previous overindulgence.

So I am a little obsessed, you might say, with seeking the best experience possible, in order to make the most of this increasingly rare indulgence. Thankfully though, this leisurely "once a year" approach does afford me plenty of time in interim to dig up new information; which is often of great help in minimizing potential mistakes. Hopefully my next experience will be the best yet!!!