Kratom to oxy conversion

[Michael.]

Don’t know if this I the right place to post but I used to addicted to opiates mainly hydros and oxe (some dope) and stopped then started taking kratom. I’ve been on kratom for like 3 years now maybe more. I take anywhere from 6-20ish range teaspoon a day.  Found some oxe and can’t seem to find the right dose and the high is not how it used to be. I used to get super energetic and the best euphoric feeling that everything in the world was great (this was off 10-20mg doses). Now when I take it I either don’t feel much when I take the lower doses and when I take the higher doses I can barely keep my eyes open and there’s not much euphoria (I know this is legit oxy it’s not pressed or anything). Has anybody had a similar situation As mine?  Ive tried 20,40 and 60mg doses and also somewhere inbetwden those like around 30. So idk if oxy will ever be the same because of kratom.  I don’t take the kratom with the oxy. Sorry this is a long post but can anybody help me out here?

thanks for reading if ya did lol

 

[TommyAC]

@Michael Percson I don't have that particular experience, but pharmacology is part of my job so I have an educated guess. 7-hydr0x.ymitr.agyn.lne (which is the active metabolite of m.itra.g.ynine, the active alkaloid in kr@t0m) has a very high affinity for the mu opi0id receptor, much higher than 0xy, but it's efficacy, meaning how well it activates the receptor is lower. It's very similar to what happens when people are on bup, the receptors in your brain are occupied by 7-hydr0x.ymitr.agyn.lne and also m.itra.g.ynine, 0xy is not potent enough to displace them so you end up with a rather muted effect. You're also taking a lot of krat0m, about 24 to 80 grams per day so you also have a higher tolerance for opis, same way as if you were taking any other opi in very large dosages (I can't stress that enough, when I take kr@tom 50 grams easily lasts me 5-6 days, you're using around that amount daily and the amount I take (5-10 grams) is average to high, not low) It's like you were taking 400 mg of cod3ine a day. It is a weak opi, but if you take a lot you still get the tolerance. That added to the fact that the kr@t0m alkaloids are blocking your 0pioid receptors, I'm surprised you feel 10-20 mg of 0xy at all.

Now the half-like of 7-hydr0x.ymitr.agyn.lne is short, 2-3 hours, so I'd guess that not taking the kr@tom for maybe a day or two before you take the 0xy could help, at least with the blocked receptor issue, but I don't know to what extend and I don't know if it would be worth it. 7-hydr0x.ymitr.agyn.lne is 13 times more p0tent than m0rph1ne, so to get the previous effect you'd need to take something considerably more potent than 0xy, maybe d1laud1d or 0p@n@ would do it, maybe not even those, Bup and f3nt are probably the ones that should work the best for you but, and I'm not trying to moralize, I'm a recovering addict too, taking very p0tent 0pies while taking very large dosages of kr@t0m will only lead you one way, so be careful.

 

[Ebolapancakes]

@Michael Percson I spent a couple years on k and could never do any other 0piates because they didn’t affect me at all. I remember I even stopped k for two days while trying to get high on oxcee. After about 400 mgs spread out over those two days I realized If I kept going I would probably OD sober lol. When I quit kratom for good it took about two months before I started to feel oxcee like normal.

 

[DoAlHu]

I've been on Kratom for a few years myself. It saved my life from a bad opiod addiction. From time to time, I will do some ox! But the bad news is, you will never get that intense euphoric rush from the ox! while you're on Kratom. 

 

[Blake33]

Disclaimer: Obligatory do NOT try doing what I did. I easily could of overdosed based on my dosages and I took a big risk. Luckily for me, nothing happened. 

I have been taking a shit ton of kratom for the past 3 years (~30 GPD at the current moment) and I don't feel shit from regular opiates. Funny thing is I've only taken regular opiates twice (prescribed to me) before being introduced to kratom and I absolutely loved the way they made me feel. I am sensitive to stimulants and could never drink coffee, so the dude at the gas station told me to buy some kratom as it is in the same family as the coffee tree and basically does the same thing. I took it every day for 3 months until I learned that it hits the opiate receptors. For the first time I decided to try and go without it for more than 24 hours and I woke up in a not so pleasant opiate WD. That's when I knew I was fucked and never wanted to quit after that for fear of going through those WDs. 

About 2 years ago I got introduced to oxys (actual legit ones, not the fake pressed shit) and I knew they would interact with kratom, so waited until I was in kratom WD and popped a 20mg pill. Didn't feel shit except it taking the WDs away. The next day I upped my dose to 60mg and still didn't feel shit. Waited 2 weeks and then took 120mg at once and didn't feel shit from that either. A month after that I bought fentanyl and blew a huge line of that and felt nothing. At this point I said screw it I may as well go all the way and IVed it for the first time ever. I forgot how much I took that time, but someone told me that anybody who was opiate naive would have 110% overdosed on the amount I shot and I felt jack shit from doing that as well. I know people who inject fentanyl can override suboxone easily, so the affinity this kratom has for the opiate receptors has to be extremely strong. Either that or my receptors are just so fucked up from everyday kratom use, that I just can't get high off of any opiate anymore. 

Looking back this was all a blessing in disguise, but it made me totally convinced that if you are taking decent doses of kratom every day, it is very difficult to get high off of any other opiates even if you wait until you go into moderate kratom WD first. 

 

[Ebolapancakes]

@Blake33 one of the biggest reasons I quit kratom was because I wanted to enjoy oxcees again lol. But I can relate to everything you said. It also made me a little worried that if I ever needed serious surgery, kratom was definitely not enough to kill real pain and other stronger opiates didn’t do anything for me.

 

[Blake33]

@Blake33 one of the biggest reasons I quit kratom was because I wanted to enjoy oxcees again lol. But I can relate to everything you said. It also made me a little worried that if I ever needed serious surgery, kratom was definitely not enough to kill real pain and other stronger opiates didn’t do anything for me.

The fact that if I need surgery or god forbid I get very sick and am hospitalized has always scared me because nobody will be able to dispense kratom to me in an inpatient medical setting. I know that they will most likely give me something, but I  do not want a history of OUD on my permanent medical record. My plan is to eventually quit kratom completely via a slow and long taper. However, I recently tapered off of and quit benzos after 7 years of daily Xanax use, so I want to wait and let myself and my brain continue to heal a bit first before attempting to quit the kratom for good. 

 

[Deepnorth]

Disclaimer: Obligatory do NOT try doing what I did. I easily could of overdosed based on my dosages and I took a big risk. Luckily for me, nothing happened. 

I have been taking a shit ton of kratom for the past 3 years (~30 GPD at the current moment) and I don't feel shit from regular opiates. Funny thing is I've only taken regular opiates twice (prescribed to me) before being introduced to kratom and I absolutely loved the way they made me feel. I am sensitive to stimulants and could never drink coffee, so the dude at the gas station told me to buy some kratom as it is in the same family as the coffee tree and basically does the same thing. I took it every day for 3 months until I learned that it hits the opiate receptors. For the first time I decided to try and go without it for more than 24 hours and I woke up in a not so pleasant opiate WD. That's when I knew I was fucked and never wanted to quit after that for fear of going through those WDs. 

About 2 years ago I got introduced to oxys (actual legit ones, not the fake pressed shit) and I knew they would interact with kratom, so waited until I was in kratom WD and popped a 20mg pill. Didn't feel shit except it taking the WDs away. The next day I upped my dose to 60mg and still didn't feel shit. Waited 2 weeks and then took 120mg at once and didn't feel shit from that either. A month after that I bought fentanyl and blew a huge line of that and felt nothing. At this point I said screw it I may as well go all the way and IVed it for the first time ever. I forgot how much I took that time, but someone told me that anybody who was opiate naive would have 110% overdosed on the amount I shot and I felt jack shit from doing that as well. I know people who inject fentanyl can override suboxone easily, so the affinity this kratom has for the opiate receptors has to be extremely strong. Either that or my receptors are just so fucked up from everyday kratom use, that I just can't get high off of any opiate anymore. 

Looking back this was all a blessing in disguise, but it made me totally convinced that if you are taking decent doses of kratom every day, it is very difficult to get high off of any other opiates even if you wait until you go into moderate kratom WD first. 

I just read this thread. I totally get it. Really I have to go straight for concentrates. Due to recent events it has been a life saver. It is all a roller coaster that we would all like to get off. The problem with me is too too many screws and rods from major wreck in 4 areas. Not to be too detailed but everyday shit can be hard. 

 

[LatsDoodis]

@Michael Percson I don't have that particular experience, but pharmacology is part of my job so I have an educated guess. 7-hydr0x.ymitr.agyn.lne (which is the active metabolite of m.itra.g.ynine, the active alkaloid in kr@t0m) has a very high affinity for the mu opi0id receptor, much higher than 0xy, but it's efficacy, meaning how well it activates the receptor is lower. It's very similar to what happens when people are on bup, the receptors in your brain are occupied by 7-hydr0x.ymitr.agyn.lne and also m.itra.g.ynine, 0xy is not potent enough to displace them so you end up with a rather muted effect. You're also taking a lot of krat0m, about 24 to 80 grams per day so you also have a higher tolerance for opis, same way as if you were taking any other opi in very large dosages (I can't stress that enough, when I take kr@tom 50 grams easily lasts me 5-6 days, you're using around that amount daily and the amount I take (5-10 grams) is average to high, not low) It's like you were taking 400 mg of cod3ine a day. It is a weak opi, but if you take a lot you still get the tolerance. That added to the fact that the kr@t0m alkaloids are blocking your 0pioid receptors, I'm surprised you feel 10-20 mg of 0xy at all.

Now the half-like of 7-hydr0x.ymitr.agyn.lne is short, 2-3 hours, so I'd guess that not taking the kr@tom for maybe a day or two before you take the 0xy could help, at least with the blocked receptor issue, but I don't know to what extend and I don't know if it would be worth it. 7-hydr0x.ymitr.agyn.lne is 13 times more p0tent than m0rph1ne, so to get the previous effect you'd need to take something considerably more potent than 0xy, maybe d1laud1d or 0p@n@ would do it, maybe not even those, Bup and f3nt are probably the ones that should work the best for you but, and I'm not trying to moralize, I'm a recovering addict too, taking very p0tent 0pies while taking very large dosages of kr@t0m will only lead you one way, so be careful.

That’s good info and explains a lot. From the little anyone knows, what I’ve read kinda fits with your guess. The receptor is bound but usually there’s a tail or some short amino bond leftovers from the cellular matrix that funneled it into the receptor and your old dose of oxy can’t bind. In the case of benzos there are moderate affinity GABAa molecules like the lifesaving lemon balm plant that do then same thing but are less competitive and actually help restore density to the subtypes deep within the receptor. So Xan for years might be a positive allostatic modulator too, but it’s gonna cause more glutamate and excitation behaviorally with by changing the response and frequency of binding sites. Lemon balm will bind with solid affinity and a carrier protein (I think) keeps itself nested in the subunit of the receptor where the response is to make each more dense and permits more rapid recovery and relief of benzo WD symptoms and damage. Maybe someone knows if such a product exists for the opioid receptors?  

 

[TommyAC]

@LatsDoodis The one well known way to lower opioid tolerance is using NMDA antagonists, k3tamine being the golden standard. But also depends on what you use, like 0xi for example has a pretty low affinity, 10 times lower than m0rph1ne, it makes up for it because it penetrates the blood brain barrier more efficiently, but when you're using agonists with considerably higher affinity it doesn't compete that well, like when h3r0in addicts are exposed to fentanyl, h3r0in stops doing it for them. Bup is the best example, it has an affinity higher than fent but is a very weak agonist so it blocks most things without giving a h1gh.

There is some research of the same thing happening with potent b3nzos like kpin, xnax, tr1azolam and many designer ones. That's why I think that if v@lium does it for you, stay with it, don't start taking xans cause after a while vals will stop working for you.

 

[swoletariat99]

The fact that if I need surgery or god forbid I get very sick and am hospitalized has always scared me because nobody will be able to dispense kratom to me in an inpatient medical setting. I know that they will most likely give me something, but I do not want a history of OUD on my permanent medical record. My plan is to eventually quit kratom completely via a slow and long taper. However, I recently tapered off of and quit benzos after 7 years of daily Xanax use, so I want to wait and let myself and my brain continue to heal a bit first before attempting to quit the kratom for good.

if you have access to gabapentin, it takes like 95% of kratom withdrawals away. Seriously. It's insane. I've come off of kratom with them a couple times.

 

[VastDrink]

if you have access to gabapentin, it takes like 95% of kratom withdrawals away. Seriously. It's insane. I've come off of kratom with them a couple times.

Yeah, definite +1 for gabapentin and gabanoids in general. Just don’t go too crazy with it because they pack a nasty WD all on their own.

Old thread, already answered but there is no such thing as a Kratom to Oxy conversion lmao. Not even speaking relatively. It’s a mix of alkaloids that act on a ton of different receptors. It’s not comparable from a euphoria aspect it’s not comparable from a pain relief aspect. On top of that it’s always gonna vary batch to batch and strain to strain

 

[Akup7ich]

Been to chicken to try Kratom
Based on close peeps ups and downs etc
However, I will say gabapentin isn’t unusual substance. They force-fed me that after my back surgery. But I know Waze is it the same as any type of narcotic
But I can see where it helps with nerve pain and blocking nerve receptors
Hard to explain, but it can make one or two steps it a little easier

A friend of mine is allergic to God forbid oxy
They have been taking the GABA for years. As one of the only choices for them.
Hope that helps?

 

[porkandbeansboy]

I've tried to always stay away from Kratom considering how much it can mess with your tolerance from what I understand.

 

[abadon]

Read through most of the thread did anyone mention 7 hydroxymitragynine or 7 OH? It's an isolate legal in most states?

 

[Deepnorth]

Read through most of the thread did anyone mention 7 hydroxymitragynine or 7 OH? It's an isolate legal in most states?

Yes they did. The concentrated isolate 7. Namely OPMS. Be cautious though it’s best to just try the regular caps. I’ve found red is the best ..also just because it’s close by dont disregard your State. The States that scheduled it went straight to the top right next to Horse. Same penalties and all. Crazy.