My Experiences With Insomnia

[timothy329131]

Note! The following is not medical advice. Just my personal experience.

I always had severe insomnia as part of other psychiatric problems. I have other physical problems which make my agitation worse as well.

For years I was ignored by doctors, they were even reluctant to prescribe packs of 28 x 2mg diazepam! Unless you've never taken 2mg diazepam before, you will feel almost nothing. I felt like I was never being taken seriously.

The doctors instead decided that heavy use of antipsychotics would be more "safe". Let me tell you, using drugs like haloperidol and olanzapine can often lead to permanent neurological problems, and in the case of olanzapine, a guaranteed ticket to being a very fat, if not obese, and developing diabetes. That stuff makes you put on weight in such a variety of ways, not only by appetite stimulation, but changes in blood sugar and metabolism. It's some screwed up stuff. Olanzapine put me to sleep, but made me fat, miserable, and eventually hospitalized for obesity related problems with my liver and stomach. These problems persist today.

I got off olanzapine cold turkey because I knew I would die if I continued. I researched sleeping drugs and to be honest, benzos still seemed like the best option. Old but gold. Even at higher doses of diazepam, I had no side-effects or addiction really. I can't believe doctors think these are "dangerous" compared to the antipsychotics. 

My insomnia can sometimes become more severe, where diazepam won't work. For that, I add quetiapine. It is officially seen as an antipsychotic, but in low doses it's just an antihistamine, antiserotonergic, antinoradrenergic drug (mildly). It is very sedating but it doesn't result in marked weight gain or extra side-effects if dose is kept low. For the more extreme nights, I have supplies of midazolam 15mg. 

Until underlying psychiatric problems are sorted I anticipate I will be on these drugs for a long time. I haven't had to increase doses yet, because quetiapine allows me to balance between that and benzos. I am not addicted in the typical drug addict sense, but I'm "addicted" therapeutically, in that if I don't take them, I don't sleep. 

I have also tried fast acting barbiturates. I once combined a normal dose of secobarbital with triazolam. Apparently I was making some food and dropped to the floor flat, slept for 48 hours, with no recollection of what happened at all. That's pretty impressive for someone who has a brain that won't switch off (I cannot sleep ever sitting up let alone standing up so I never suspected I would sleep unless I hit the sack).

Anyway that's my story of insomnia drugs. Doctors will try to take you around the antipsychotic ringer. They also seem to thing Z-drugs are less dangerous than typical benzos. Temazepam and lorazepam are much safer, more effective and less addicting than shorter acting Z drugs, in my opinion. Midazolam blows them all out of the water. Barbiturates are fun but they are pretty hardcore and dangerous. Quetiapine at low doses (25-100mg) is a really good addition or even on its own, tolerance is rarely built.

My sleep is now stable at least. 

 

[Bloom]

Thanks for your informative post! I'll have to check out lorazepam and temazepam - never heard of those before. I've suffered insomnia my entire life - earliest I can recall is age eight and the "clock" games I'd play to keep my eyes closed for five minutes stretches. I've taken Ambien since 2001. I also have a Rx for diazepam 5mg but use those once or twice daily - then Ambien to sleep.

It's true no doctor is sympathetic to sleep issues/disorders. I've heard all the same advice about antipsychotics and antidepressants - and think....hmmm, how can a short halflife medication like Ambien be more dangerous than mind altering psychiatric drugs? Yes I eat a good diet. No I don't exercise - why the hell does that matter? Yes. I'm Type A, a bit compulsive - high achiever....it doesn't mean I shouldn't get a good night of sleep!

In fact, my prescribing physician knows I order Ambien online and he thinks it's completely fine to take two Ambien a night. Of course, I go to a doctor who doesn't accept insurance - and he can be more liberal without insurance constraints. Plus he gives the best B-12/Magnesium injections in the world. I float out of his office on a cloud!

And I recently discovered a new heaven....Soma! I can function on two Ambien for 30/45 minutes - but Soma....out like a light in 15m.

Thanks again for your post. And welcome to DBG!

Bloom

 

[Suzie]

my doctor told me that the ingredients in tem@zepam is exactly the same as 30mg.'s of v@lium.  So in other words 3 ten mg. vals = 1 tem@zepam

 

[Bloom]

my doctor told me that the ingredients in tem@zepam is exactly the same as 30mg.'s of v@lium.  So in other words 3 ten mg. vals = 1 tem@zepam

SHUT THE FRONT DOOR! Because I'll be laying on the floor....

LOL!

Bloom

 

[Suzie]

SHUT THE FRONT DOOR! Because I'll be laying on the floor....

LOL!

Bloom

LOL

 

[headbanger]

A while ago I had problems sleeping and my Doc gave me Seroquel the lowest dose. It's an antipsychotic so no chance of addiction.

 

It worked. Too well. Took it on Monday and woke up Wednesday. That shit knocked me into next week.

 

My point is Doc's often prescribe off label of a drug that might help another medical issue without the effects of taking the stronger more addictive drug.

 

[2earls]

A while ago I had problems sleeping and my Doc gave me Seroquel the lowest dose. It's an antipsychotic so no chance of addiction.

 

It worked. Too well. Took it on Monday and woke up Wednesday. That shit knocked me into next week.

 

My point is Doc's often prescribe off label of a drug that might help another medical issue without the effects of taking the stronger more addictive drug.

I have some of this stuff. Your experience does not make me want to even try it. I have insomnia but don't want to lose 2 days. You said it was "low dose", do you know what strength that was?

Thanks HB

 

[headbanger]

The lowest - 25mg. Now we all know that the side effects of meds tend to lessen over time but I did not want to lose 3 days a week due to over sleeping waiting to see if that was true with this drug.

 

[Silver Shadow]

Seroquel and trazadone are heavy ones they like to give for insomnia. Its total bullshit. My story is alot like Timothy. Ive tried ambien which led to sleep walking and falling and now am on Lunesta doin the same thing. Im a freakn ginea pig when it comes to meds i could prob tell you alot about almost anything.Take a sominex and a xanax and youll be good as gold. Lorazepam is ativan btw.

 

[Silver Shadow]

Timothy.Quitiepine is seroquel btw.They say low dose of it helps w sleep but it is really another antipsychotic.yes it'll knock you out but if you have any other mental issues that you take anything for it may have a reaction. Please be careful and make sure your psych and reg dr both know everything youre on and communication is an absolute must.these drugs can help you but this is your mind and body theyre messn w not theirs.if anyone wants to know anything about meds and what they do or what the brand name is of all these generics cuz thats exactly what all these are. Generics of brand names.please pm me

 

[timothy329131]

To anyone "scared" of quetiapine (seroquel), I was in the exact same position. I had terrible experiences on other antipsychotics and I was supposed to have faith in another one. Screw that, I thought. 

But really, quetiapine is not an antipsychotic at doses under 100mg. They say it helps for depression or whatever, but I call B.S.  Its best use is for insomnia. 

I think that long-term use of zolpidem or zopiclone can be quite dangerous. Short-term, heavy hitting GABA agonists have the bizarre side-effect of sleep walking, eating while you're asleep, and just generally doing random shit while asleep. I have taken zolpidem, midazolam, triazolam (separately of course) and ended up in a completely different place in my house with bizarre objects in my hands e.g. ingredients to bake a cake all mixed in a bowl, or just with a completely messed up room, or with my computer still on and earphones in, when I always go to bed with computer off and earphones nowhere near me. It's just some bizarre shit. I mean what if someone on zolpidem (Ambien) grabbed a knife and started stabbing people, without having any consciousness of what they were doing whatsoever. This kind of shit is entirely possible. 

With this in mind, I try to keep it to quetiapine low doses and an intermediate benzo like temazepam or lorazepam at worst. If I can get away with it, I replace it with diazepam which doesn't cause the strange sleep behavior I mentioned.

Quetiapine, diazepam, temazepam, lorazepam, zopiclone, zolpidem, triazolam, midazolam, is probably how I would rank for safety in insomnia drugs, based on experience. 

There are other things like soma but that's pretty dangerous (its main active metabolite is meprobamate, nearly as dangerous as barbiturates). Then psychs will give things like trazodone and mirtazapine. I mean I guess those two are sedating but trazodone is trash, it makes you feel shit and is nowhere near as good as quetiapine. 

 

[timothy329131]

Hmm... Soma does sound interesting, but don't know if it's worth the expense. Its mechanism of action doesn't seem very clear. Which is why it's interesting, but then again it could just feel like another seroquel type thing, knocking you out.

And I recently discovered a new heaven....Soma! I can function on two Ambien for 30/45 minutes - but Soma....out like a light in 15m.

Thanks again for your post. And welcome to DBG!

Bloom

 

[iron maiden]

I think when your younger things bother you more and flick a switch and you brain stays on stress,trama and you get over tried making it harder to fall asleep. When your older you say screw it if you have a bad hair cut and everyone going to look at you funny etc Keep a good sleep pattern and habits. I found take your meds sleep get back on track helps.Go do something will help you crash..Winters always ruff for me..It about that time to crash ..Nite

 

[Def_Starr]

whoa!, some of these sleep drugs is what they use for BENZO  w/d , some people in addiction centers sleep through w/d , is this the kinda meds they use? 

 

[Phrenicz]

My doc won't give me shit for sleeping?!.. He doesn't see that as a contributory factor to my condition?.. Yeah, ok, 3 hrs sleep a night is renowned to boost ones mental well being?!..

Thankfully, I can source 'items' without his expert guidance ; )

~P~

 

[iron maiden]

Yea some doctors are not into rxing meds for sleep and others will .Ive had one prescribe to much and jerked me off them to fast and its no fun at all , benzo wds is the worse thing ..So if you need them just be careful because one day your doctor or supply ain't there and your screwed..I never took them for wrong reasons but relied to much on benzos and sleep meds and had a doctor that did a 180 becaused he screwed up and I learned fast how bad things can get . I'm glad now and feel better ,but you go to another doctor and they all look like you did something wrong taking meds that another prescribed at that dose..Always think to that you can go to hospital and will be pee tested if you get sick . That's why I keep it at lowest dose and find it works out OK even if your a bit over just say you took one early because your stressed about coming to er.. Sleep is the best medicine to me and think if someone's sick knock them out with meds till they feel better ..I kinda think there's all these meds but they are afraid to use them ..I'm all in for you sign and the risks are all yours take at your own risks and hold no one but your self responsible but yourself..Don't you think it sucks some people can't get a doctor to prescribe a med. We need to get looked at like you look OK to me here is what you need ,but that guy I'm not sure about type bs.I can go on and on but hey that's why we are here on the forum .I can go from Dr to Dr but then your shopping they say . I want to stop writing but this subject really means a lot to me sleep and pain meds should not be so that people with real problems need to do something not right to get them.

 

[Suzie]

Yea some doctors are not into rxing meds for sleep and others will .Ive had one prescribe to much and jerked me off them to fast and its no fun at all , benzo wds is the worse thing ..So if you need them just be careful because one day your doctor or supply ain't there and your screwed..I never took them for wrong reasons but relied to much on benzos and sleep meds and had a doctor that did a 180 becaused he screwed up and I learned fast how bad things can get . I'm glad now and feel better ,but you go to another doctor and they all look like you did something wrong taking meds that another prescribed at that dose..Always think to that you can go to hospital and will be pee tested if you get sick . That's why I keep it at lowest dose and find it works out OK even if your a bit over just say you took one early because your stressed about coming to er.. Sleep is the best medicine to me and think if someone's sick knock them out with meds till they feel better ..I kinda think there's all these meds but they are afraid to use them ..I'm all in for you sign and the risks are all yours take at your own risks and hold no one but your self responsible but yourself..Don't you think it sucks some people can't get a doctor to prescribe a med. We need to get looked at like you look OK to me here is what you need ,but that guy I'm not sure about type bs.I can go on and on but hey that's why we are here on the forum .I can go from Dr to Dr but then your shopping they say . I want to stop writing but this subject really means a lot to me sleep and pain meds should not be so that people with real problems need to do something not right to get them.

I discovered that a good nights sleep really does make a difference with pain.  I was having problems falling asleep and got into the habit of watching t.v. to fall asleep because that helped in the beginning and then I couldn't fall asleep unless the tv was on.  I guess the sound kept me from the REM sleep and I would wake up in pain every day and the first time I slept with the t.v. off I felt so much better in the morning I couldn't believe it.  But what I wanted to reply to was the doctor shopping.  You can go from dr. to dr. to find one that prescribes for you.  Doctor shopping is when more than one doctor is prescribing the same type of drugs.  Like you are getting ben zos or p/k from more than one that is doctor shopping but going from one to another to find one that you like is ok.

 

[Guest]

I used to take trazadone. It worked just fine for years. But it stopped.

I have recently become really bad at sleeping,i have just come out of a two week period where i slept three nights. I was up ALL night allof the others. I went to sleep late wednesday and woke up this morning...solid i beleive. I am groggy and crabby right now. Five or six days with no sleep is NOT doable for me.

I just started therapy for severe PTSD from a very long time ago. My doc says this is temporary but normallt i cango for three nights with no sleep. I am hoping to sleep every other night by the time i am done with therapy. I have really bad night terrors and am afraid to go to sleep most of the time. The thirty six hours i just got were uninterrupted by terrors, somebad dreams but nothing like a nightmare. I cant keep doing this.

I know i am just babbling.....i amso groggy right now. I just want to fo back to sleep. I am so so tired.

 

[iron maiden]

Good luck cat in the hat and hope your sleep gets better . I had that PTSD and use to just try self medicating when I was young. Then I went to a therapist that feed me xanys and sleep meds and still only slept a few hrs ,but kept going got back to doing things I liked doing fishing ,boating and riding bikes and had a great bunch of friends and before you know it I was slowly stopped taking meds and falling asleep at my friends house in his chair or in my van driving home and was cured . I've had it come back a few times from trama ,death to a family member but now I learned to take meds and get together with friends and do something you like and in time things get better .I hope you have the same luck with it. I found that drinking booze mignt help one night but made it worse in the long run. Right now my sleeps not the worse I ever had but could be better so II'm looking forward to nice weather to get out of the house. I find the setting clocks ahead or back messes my sleep up for some reason .