Need more pain relief

[King's Daughter]

Over the last 18mo for severe 24/7 chronic nerve pain, I've been alternating kratom and 30 to 60 mg hydr0 (Tu$$ionex--hydr0 +chl0r-fen). Nothing with acetomiaphin as it makes the pain worse.  The chl0r-fen (anti-histamine) in the tu$$ionex is a potentiator.  

The pain relief I get from either of these is no longer reliable. I don't know what the next step would be in terms of what would I take to get more reliable/stronger/better pain relief?  Ideas? The Hydr0 has been kind to me in that I'm not addicted to it. I'd love to stay that way....but am looking for input on where to go next.  

I've been reading up on potentiators on the forum here. Not sure if I should try adding another potentiator or going to another med. All ideas are welcome. Thanks guys...

 

[Btktkk]

Sometimes switching to another med for a couple months and then switching back helps.  Just a thought. I know some Drs that bout every three months they switch their pts to a different  regimen and then switch them back.  To kind of trick your body. Idk if this makes sense. But good luck! Pain sucks!

 

[King's Daughter]

Sometimes switching to another med for a couple months and then switching back helps.  Just a thought. I know some Drs that bout every three months they switch their pts to a different  regimen and then switch them back.  To kind of trick your body. Idk if this makes sense. But good luck! Pain sucks!

It does make perfect sense. I've been trying to figure out what to switch to so I could switch back. Don't want to go up, up and away. I appreciate your comment. /default_wink.png Helps validate my own thinking recently.

 

[mrpibbpenguin]

Have you ever heard of poppy seed tea? Warning: This contains morphine, codine and other opium alkaloids and is very powerful. I'd recommend you start with a half lb or a full lb if you have a tolerance. You should even be able to source poppy seeds locally at your grocery store. NEVER BUY SMALL SPICE-LIKE CONTAINERS OF POPPY SEEDS THEY ARE ALL BUNK/IRRADIATED.  I know that Milk Thistle and Valerian Root are great potentiators of opiates because of strong cyp3a4 inhibtion. Hope that helps /default_smile.png

 

[King's Daughter]

Have you ever heard of poppy seed tea? Warning: This contains morphine, codine and other opium alkaloids and is very powerful. I'd recommend you start with a half lb or a full lb if you have a tolerance. You should even be able to source poppy seeds locally at your grocery store. NEVER BUY SMALL SPICE-LIKE CONTAINERS OF POPPY SEEDS THEY ARE ALL BUNK/IRRADIATED.  I know that Milk Thistle and Valerian Root are great potentiators of opiates because of strong cyp3a4 inhibtion. Hope that helps /default_smile.png

I have not heard of poppy seed tea. Powerful sounds good. No tolerance except to hydr0c0.done, so I'll go with 1/2 pound. I live in a big city with national grocery store chains. Is that type of store able to source poppy seeds for me? Or would I need more of a health food store, which we also have? Actually I think I'll look online if I know what to look for. Am I asking for unprocessed seeds? And then how to make the tea? Just poppy seeds and hot water? How much might I start with in terms of poppy seeds per cup of tea? 1 tsp, 1 tbspn? And I'm sorry, but one last question, how long does pain relief last with this type of tea? I have both of those potentiators on hand (didn't know they were potentiators) in tincture/extract form. Thanks for the tip! I'll try that with my next dose of hydr0.

 

[mrpibbpenguin]

They are probably at both the big chain and the health food store. It's hard to say. You will find the best prices online in bulk. It is important to understand you are not extracting from the seeds themselves but from the micrograms of opium residue stuck to the seeds. You will want to use the whole half lb as you will probably not notice any effects from a few tbspns of seeds (even from really potent seeds), I recommend using a lemon with the water as an acidic mixture helps wash off the seeds better. To make the tea funnel the seeds into a 2 liter bottle and cover it with the water/lemon mix and shake for a few minutes, now lightly unscrew the lid (very finely, like tuning an instrument) and squeeze out the tea into your tea vessel. Make sure you are also using a wire mesh strainer to catch the seeds as if they stay in your tea they will release their rancid oils which don't contribute to the high and will make you nauseous. It should come on in about an hour and last 12 or more hours depending on how potent your seeds are. If you potentiate or use too many seeds you could easily be medicated for over 24 hours. Be careful and sip slow!

 

[LaLocaDeLosGatos]

This is just my second post and I may not be putting it in the right topic area...but for folks with fibromyalgia, if your MD hasn't already suggested gabapentin, it might be worthwhile to see if helps.  It makes a big difference for me but I can only take 100 mg at bedtime every other night.  If I take it during the day or every night, it builds up and makes me so sleepy I nod off at my desk at work.   I also use tramadol but can get by with a little less of that on gaba days.   Ordered some poppy seeds to have a go at making that tea for really bad days.

 

[King's Daughter]

This is just my second post and I may not be putting it in the right topic area...but for folks with fibromyalgia, if your MD hasn't already suggested gabapentin, it might be worthwhile to see if helps.  It makes a big difference for me but I can only take 100 mg at bedtime every other night.  If I take it during the day or every night, it builds up and makes me so sleepy I nod off at my desk at work.   I also use tramadol but can get by with a little less of that on gaba days.   Ordered some poppy seeds to have a go at making that tea for really bad days.

Gabapentin/neurontin is the generic inexpensive version that nearly everyone can afford and for some it works and for others it does not. Then along came Lyrica (pre-gablin) (for diabetic nerve pain), and it is also prescribed for fibromyalgia. It can take some time to kick in....or not. It worked for me the first day I took it. I was prescribed to take it 3 x a day, and I don't remember the mg--maybe 50 or 100? That is the experience I hear from most people I know. If you do not have pharm insurance, then you will want to apply for Lyrica's patient assistance. It is surprisingly easy to be approved (you do not need to be on medicaid).  Your doctor needs to request the application. Without insurance, Lyrica runs about $400 to $500 for a 30 day supply. Don't know about others, but that's not in my budget! For various reasons much to difficult and boring to explain, neither gabapentin nor lyrica work for me anymore (and I do not have fibromyalgia). But when the lyrica did work, it was fantastic. It has a lot of potential side effects. If you have the luxury of increasing slowly from say 25 mg to 200 or 300 over 8 to 12 weeks, the symptoms will be much less noticeable. I didn't have that luxury--I needed pain relief and fast. In any case, maybe this will help someone out there!!

 

[King's Daughter]

   Ordered some poppy seeds to have a go at making that tea for really bad days.

LaLocosdeLosGatos, could you reply or PM me (not sure you can PM yet since you are new) about where you ordered the poppy seeds? Every day is a really bad day for me (for now), and due to pain and extreme fatigue, I haven't yet looked for a place to order them online. If you found a place, I would love to know what it is. It might make the process of trying the tea actually do-able for me! I haven't done a thing about it yet. (If you can't reply, check with moderator 2earls. I think she would be able to help you.)

 

[LaLocaDeLosGatos]

I think you're right about the PM thing...so will just do reply...I searched for it on Amazon ....there seemed to be several vendors...I've used "we got nuts".  Should be at the PO by now....sure hope you can get some & they help!

(When my doc first prescribed the gaba he said my ins wouldn't pay for Lyrica...I think as long as I skip a day or at least 12 hrs, it will help enuff to get by)

Hang in there!

 

[King's Daughter]

I think you're right about the PM thing...so will just do reply...I searched for it on Amazon ....there seemed to be several vendors...I've used "we got nuts".  Should be at the PO by now....sure hope you can get some & they help!

(When my doc first prescribed the gaba he said my ins wouldn't pay for Lyrica...I think as long as I skip a day or at least 12 hrs, it will help enuff to get by)

Hang in there!

THANK YOU so so so much! I know how to shop Amazon, so I can do that, and will prob do it tonight!

 

[King's Daughter]

I think you're right about the PM thing...so will just do reply...I searched for it on Amazon ....there seemed to be several vendors...I've used "we got nuts".  Should be at the PO by now....sure hope you can get some & they help!

(When my doc first prescribed the gaba he said my ins wouldn't pay for Lyrica...I think as long as I skip a day or at least 12 hrs, it will help enuff to get by)

Hang in there!

Sorry to bother you... I am on amazon, and wow, there are lots of poppy seed choices. Blue, black, unwashed, organic, kosher, etc. Did anything in particular make you choose the "we got nuts" brand?

They are probably at both the big chain and the health food store. It's hard to say. You will find the best prices online in bulk. It is important to understand you are not extracting from the seeds themselves but from the micrograms of opium residue stuck to the seeds. You will want to use the whole half lb as you will probably not notice any effects from a few tbspns of seeds (even from really potent seeds), I recommend using a lemon with the water as an acidic mixture helps wash off the seeds better. To make the tea funnel the seeds into a 2 liter bottle and cover it with the water/lemon mix and shake for a few minutes, now lightly unscrew the lid (very finely, like tuning an instrument) and squeeze out the tea into your tea vessel. Make sure you are also using a wire mesh strainer to catch the seeds as if they stay in your tea they will release their rancid oils which don't contribute to the high and will make you nauseous. It should come on in about an hour and last 12 or more hours depending on how potent your seeds are. If you potentiate or use too many seeds you could easily be medicated for over 24 hours. Be careful and sip slow!

Thank you for these perfectly detailed instructions. That's exactly what I needed. I am on amazon looking at all the different poppy seed choices. 5 and 10 pound bags. Do you have any particular advice on what type is better than another? Based on what you said about getting the residue, I thought maybe unwashed was important? Or not? If you have a brand you like and/or something specific to look for: blue or black or Spanish or organic or unwashed, will you let me know? Hoping to place the order tonight. Wanted to get this question posted. Thanks so much for your help! /default_smile.png

 

[King's Daughter]

They are probably at both the big chain and the health food store. It's hard to say. You will find the best prices online in bulk. It is important to understand you are not extracting from the seeds themselves but from the micrograms of opium residue stuck to the seeds. You will want to use the whole half lb as you will probably not notice any effects from a few tbspns of seeds (even from really potent seeds), I recommend using a lemon with the water as an acidic mixture helps wash off the seeds better. To make the tea funnel the seeds into a 2 liter bottle and cover it with the water/lemon mix and shake for a few minutes, now lightly unscrew the lid (very finely, like tuning an instrument) and squeeze out the tea into your tea vessel. Make sure you are also using a wire mesh strainer to catch the seeds as if they stay in your tea they will release their rancid oils which don't contribute to the high and will make you nauseous. It should come on in about an hour and last 12 or more hours depending on how potent your seeds are. If you potentiate or use too many seeds you could easily be medicated for over 24 hours. Be careful and sip slow!

OK. my hubby made the first batch today. Thank God for him. @LaLocaDeLosGatos, we went with unwashed black seeds from Amazon (spice gourmet was the seller). Only reason being that the Penguin (smile) said that what comes off of the outside of the seed is important. As I read through one other thread, no one mentioned the type of seeds used, so I started thinking maybe it didn't really matter--as long as it isn't the kind you use as a spice.

It actually tastes pleasant with the water and lemon--refreshing. The first batch made about 3 cups, and I assume that is just based on how much water we put in.  (1/2 pound of seeds). I've never taken anything stronger than hydr0, so I am a bit on the cautious side. Well, I have had a couple of perK0set in my life, but only on a rare occasion. So, I'm sipping slowly, and will report in in an hour or so. I suppose I ought to drink the whole 3 cups. But I will go a bit slower than that so nothing catches me by surprise. I'm lookin' for pain relief and that is all!

Thanks for all the help. Mr. or Mrs. Crazy Cat, I'd love to hear how your experience went, if you've made it yet?

 

[LaLocaDeLosGatos]

Package wasn't at post office until yesterday.....I haven't even opened the box yet....too much stuff to deal with and haven't had a chance to : (   But hopefully can check 'em out tomorrow....I knew I needed "unwashed" but the description didn't specify that, so I may just have a bag of snacks and bagel topping! LoL. If I have to order again, I'll make sure the description is clear ....and when I browsed back on Amazon tonight, a seller called The Nodding Turtle would have the right stuff for sure.

I'm encouraged that you say the "tea" isn't bad tasting...some articles I've read indicated it was kind of icky.  I seek only pain relief also.....not enough time in my routine for the luxury of being "high".  Will try to check back tomorrow/tonight  to see if it made a difference for you.   Since I can't order Kratom because of where I live, the seeds seem to be the only "nonprescription" option. 

 

[King's Daughter]

Package wasn't at post office until yesterday.....I haven't even opened the box yet....too much stuff to deal with and haven't had a chance to : (   But hopefully can check 'em out tomorrow....I knew I needed "unwashed" but the description didn't specify that, so I may just have a bag of snacks and bagel topping! LoL. If I have to order again, I'll make sure the description is clear ....and when I browsed back on Amazon tonight, a seller called The Nodding Turtle would have the right stuff for sure.

I'm encouraged that you say the "tea" isn't bad tasting...some articles I've read indicated it was kind of icky.  I seek only pain relief also.....not enough time in my routine for the luxury of being "high".  Will try to check back tomorrow/tonight  to see if it made a difference for you.   Since I can't order Kratom because of where I live, the seeds seem to be the only "nonprescription" option. 

Well here's the news so far. I drank a little more of the 2 cups over the course of 2 hours. (I drank the rest of it throughout the night as I woke up here and there.) As soon as I took the first sip I could tell it was making me sleepy. BUT the great news for me is that it took away all the pain until 11:30 this morning. I also could.not.move. (or get out of bed) until 11:30! If you have anything you need to do in life, you might want to try your first batch on a weekend...or whenever you might be able to catch a nice long night of sleep and not have much to do the next morning. 

I will say I am highly sensitive and do have much stronger reactions to pretty much anything, than anyone else. I really dislike being tired and unable to move, but that's just the way life is at the moment. If you have a more normal body than I do, you might have a more balanced reaction.

It is also common for me to have a super-strong reaction to the first dose, and then start having more normal reactions within a few days. So I'm guessing I might be less tired as I progress. I'm planning on alternating this with the hydr0--not every other day, but maybe 3 days of one and 4 days of another. I know the hydr0 needs a break because of tolerance. Four days seems to be plenty.

I didn't know I needed unwashed, so I guess I'm just glad I happened to notice some were sold that way! Thanks for the tip on the nodding turtle. I also read in one thread somewhere that someone uses the pods and gets a stronger version of the juice/tea. I don't need stronger right now for sure. But keeping it in mind for another day if needed.

I do have an unusual taste tolerance. But it was just like unsweetened lemonade, but it didn't even make me pucker or make a bitter beer face. So...if it does taste gross to you, I would guess you could add some sweetener of some sort to it, and have a mild-tasting lemonade.

I have used Kratom in the past for pain control. Only the red strains worked for me.  And for me, at first it was a gift from heaven, and then after 6 months I had to stop it completely. The pain control wore off (even though I gave it breaks as often as I could), and the energy-loss/fatigue for me was overwhelming. I know many people who don't have such over-the-top reactions and they are able to use it for years. Hopefully the tea works great for you, and if you ever move out of state, you can give Kratom a try then if needed. It's ridiculous that it's illegal anywhere.

Oh, and somewhere I read you can re-use the seeds. It made a much less stronger batch, so depending on strength of pain-killing you need, that might be an option. I sipped on that throughout the night, but will use a full regular dose again tonight.

As a daughter of the King , I do happen to believe it is God's will to heal anyone who is sick, including me and you. So, Father, I thank you for your complete healing of both myself and crazy cat. Thank you for setting her free from ALL pain and any other ailments, and for healing her head to toe. All pain, ever shred of it, leave her body now, in Jesus' name. amen.

 

[King's Daughter]

So, oh my goodness, I drank a sip of the second batch my hubby made. It was the second soak of the same seeds, and it was HORRIBLE. I will do just about anything to get pain relief, so I will probably drink this nasty stuff. But the first batch was WAY different. Here are a few details of the first batch: 2 cups of seeds is about a 1/2 pound. He used about 4 TBSPNs of lemon juice, and prob 3 to 4 cups water. The mixture was shaken hard for 5 minutes, rested a couple minutes and shaken hard for another 2 minutes. The next hour, it was shaken again for 2 minutes. All told, it sat 3 to 4 hours. 

I don't know how long this one sat, but when I talked to him, I told him 1) he has to taste this one /default_smile.png and 2) what he thought was different. He thought it was prob using the same seeds. We are experimenting obviously since this is the first time. 

On the other thread I read, lots of people mixed it with sunny delight or orange juice or 100% white grapefruit juice, which they said potentiates it. I know it's a potentiator for the kratom, but don't know for sure if it is for this. I hope your first batch is nice like mine was. I do have a new batch that will be ready in a couple of hours. We're just making ours with water and the lemon juice. My body gets mad at me if I drink juice or add sweeteners. Otherwise, the OJ is a great solution! Oh, and on the other thread, a lot of people shook it a lot more. So if it's not strong enough for you, you can always shake it longer, and apparently shake it every hour, if you can. And make sure to drain after a few hours (I think) otherwise you might have to make the bitter beer face I am making now.

 

[LaLocaDeLosGatos]

Much thanks for those good thoughts....and I tend to believe that what we send out into the cosmos is returned to us several-fold!/default_rolleyes.gif

OK.....looking at my package of seeds, I'm thinking they are NOT "unwashed"....oh well...my sister is a great cook and can use 'em in something tasty.  However, considering your reaction, I now wonder if (once I get  the right kind )they'd be too sedating for me.....it doesn't take much  to get me drowsy, which isn't a good way to be while trying to push papers at the ol' sweat shop. Like you say, it would need to be a time when there's nothing I need to do.....like that's ever gonna happen/default_laugh.png !

No, seriously...it appears that the kind of torture you endure warrants whatever can make it bearable. My pain is prortionate to the amount of walking I have to do....when I'm not moving, I don't hurt (usually). Anyway...I'm still curious about the tea, so despite the likelihood of it knocking me out, I'll order some of the right stuff and see what happens.  At worst I might get some much needed shuteye (as opposed to doing this at 1:30 am.!)

 

[Vengo3]

Package wasn't at post office until yesterday.....I haven't even opened the box yet....too much stuff to deal with and haven't had a chance to : (   But hopefully can check 'em out tomorrow....I knew I needed "unwashed" but the description didn't specify that, so I may just have a bag of snacks and bagel topping! LoL. If I have to order again, I'll make sure the description is clear ....and when I browsed back on Amazon tonight, a seller called The Nodding Turtle would have the right stuff for sure.

I'm encouraged that you say the "tea" isn't bad tasting...some articles I've read indicated it was kind of icky.  I seek only pain relief also.....not enough time in my routine for the luxury of being "high".  Will try to check back tomorrow/tonight  to see if it made a difference for you.   Since I can't order Kratom because of where I live, the seeds seem to be the only "nonprescription" option. 

Well here's the news so far. I drank a little more of the 2 cups over the course of 2 hours. (I drank the rest of it throughout the night as I woke up here and there.) As soon as I took the first sip I could tell it was making me sleepy. BUT the great news for me is that it took away all the pain until 11:30 this morning. I also could.not.move. (or get out of bed) until 11:30! If you have anything you need to do in life, you might want to try your first batch on a weekend...or whenever you might be able to catch a nice long night of sleep and not have much to do the next morning. 

I will say I am highly sensitive and do have much stronger reactions to pretty much anything, than anyone else. I really dislike being tired and unable to move, but that's just the way life is at the moment. If you have a more normal body than I do, you might have a more balanced reaction.

It is also common for me to have a super-strong reaction to the first dose, and then start having more normal reactions within a few days. So I'm guessing I might be less tired as I progress. I'm planning on alternating this with the hydr0--not every other day, but maybe 3 days of one and 4 days of another. I know the hydr0 needs a break because of tolerance. Four days seems to be plenty.

I didn't know I needed unwashed, so I guess I'm just glad I happened to notice some were sold that way! Thanks for the tip on the nodding turtle. I also read in one thread somewhere that someone uses the pods and gets a stronger version of the juice/tea. I don't need stronger right now for sure. But keeping it in mind for another day if needed.

I do have an unusual taste tolerance. But it was just like unsweetened lemonade, but it didn't even make me pucker or make a bitter beer face. So...if it does taste gross to you, I would guess you could add some sweetener of some sort to it, and have a mild-tasting lemonade.

I have used Kratom in the past for pain control. Only the red strains worked for me.  And for me, at first it was a gift from heaven, and then after 6 months I had to stop it completely. The pain control wore off (even though I gave it breaks as often as I could), and the energy-loss/fatigue for me was overwhelming. I know many people who don't have such over-the-top reactions and they are able to use it for years. Hopefully the tea works great for you, and if you ever move out of state, you can give Kratom a try then if needed. It's ridiculous that it's illegal anywhere.

Oh, and somewhere I read you can re-use the seeds. It made a much less stronger batch, so depending on strength of pain-killing you need, that might be an option. I sipped on that throughout the night, but will use a full regular dose again tonight.

As a daughter of the King , I do happen to believe it is God's will to heal anyone who is sick, including me and you. So, Father, I thank you for your complete healing of both myself and crazy cat. Thank you for setting her free from ALL pain and any other ailments, and for healing her head to toe. All pain, ever shred of it, leave her body now, in Jesus' name. amen.

Careful if you switch to the pods. They are much stronger.  Also, you have to buy the right ones.  Look for ones that say organic and also a special kind. There are recipes on the Internet and YouTube.  Use lime juice when heating and do not bring to a complete boil.  You will also need a coffee grinder.  Neither Amazon or eBay sell the pods anymore.  But they are out there, you just have to look.  Pods are legal to purchase in the USA for flower arrangements.  The pods knock the pain out for longer for me, and I only use it when nothing else works.  Be prepared to loose a day because they do make you feel bad.  Worth it to calm the pain and get back to something weaker.  There is also a forum on here about them.  Good luck.

 

[King's Daughter]

@Vengo3, thank you for the caution. I didn't know they were stronger. Do you know what the special kind is that is needed (besides organic)? Just in case I do have to go that route? Thank you much for your good information. I hope I remember it if I do need something stronger!!