Sleeping Jerks/spasms taking & coming off of Tr@madol/Opi@tes?

[rockytop]

Greetings everyone.  Seems like all around the message boards people are kicking the last couple weeks.  Count me in again.....I'm hoping this is my last nasty love affair with the Tr@mpz.    What is really strange this go around is that a couple weeks ago after months of not using Tr@mpz I started at low dose and by day or two was up to 100-150mg twice a day.  Anyone knows how quickly you build up a tolerance to those bastards knows that is a very moderate dose.  Well, at that dose i noticed at night when I would just fall asleep i would get big jerks, what I believe are myclonic jerks.  I have also read when it is related to sleep they are hypnic jerks.  Seems like i would get more jerks with 150mg dosage few hours before bed than 100mg.  What's weird is that i've never ever had these jerks EXCEPT when I would detox from Tr@mps the first day or two, i would jerk awake before going to sleep and then it would stop when i fell asleep.  What's also weird this time is that taking the dose described above sometimes i'd get the jerks throughout the night and REALLY get them when i wake up in the morning and try to go back to sleep.  So, I decided this is total bullshit and it's no use taking these f-ers if they are going to do this, especially since Ive read that people can get seizures at higher doses.  I wondered if this is an indicator that my body is reacting different to them and i could be setting myself up for a seizure.    I've heard this could also be an indicator of seratonin syndrome.  But, that doesn't add up with the minimal dose i was taking (and i was not taking any other SSRI or seratonine related meds)

So, here's the kicker.  last time I detoxed from Tr@mps I took Z0l0oft and it helped big time with the SSRI withdrawls.  The first night i went to bed this time i didn't take any z0l0ft because i only had pr0zac and I took a half of an oxee.    I actually had very minimal jerking (could before bed).  the second day i felt real anxious so i took a pr0zac and that night when i went to bed (still abstaining from Tr@mps), took my half oxee and HAD THE WORSE JERKS AND TWITCHES YET!   So now i'm wondering if the SSRI qualities in the pr0zac are causing it and that the SSRI attributes of the Tr@mps were doing it too.    Anybody have any related experiences?  

 

[Pharmer]

Greetings everyone.  Seems like all around the message boards people are kicking the last couple weeks.  Count me in again.....I'm hoping this is my last nasty love affair with the Tr@mpz.    What is really strange this go around is that a couple weeks ago after months of not using Tr@mpz I started at low dose and by day or two was up to 100-150mg twice a day.  Anyone knows how quickly you build up a tolerance to those bastards knows that is a very moderate dose.  Well, at that dose i noticed at night when I would just fall asleep i would get big jerks, what I believe are myclonic jerks.  I have also read when it is related to sleep they are hypnic jerks.  Seems like i would get more jerks with 150mg dosage few hours before bed than 100mg.  What's weird is that i've never ever had these jerks EXCEPT when I would detox from Tr@mps the first day or two, i would jerk awake before going to sleep and then it would stop when i fell asleep.  What's also weird this time is that taking the dose described above sometimes i'd get the jerks throughout the night and REALLY get them when i wake up in the morning and try to go back to sleep.  So, I decided this is total bullshit and it's no use taking these f-ers if they are going to do this, especially since Ive read that people can get seizures at higher doses.  I wondered if this is an indicator that my body is reacting different to them and i could be setting myself up for a seizure.    I've heard this could also be an indicator of seratonin syndrome.  But, that doesn't add up with the minimal dose i was taking (and i was not taking any other SSRI or seratonine related meds)

So, here's the kicker.  last time I detoxed from Tr@mps I took Z0l0oft and it helped big time with the SSRI withdrawls.  The first night i went to bed this time i didn't take any z0l0ft because i only had pr0zac and I took a half of an oxee.    I actually had very minimal jerking (could before bed).  the second day i felt real anxious so i took a pr0zac and that night when i went to bed (still abstaining from Tr@mps), took my half oxee and HAD THE WORSE JERKS AND TWITCHES YET!   So now i'm wondering if the SSRI qualities in the pr0zac are causing it and that the SSRI attributes of the Tr@mps were doing it too.    Anybody have any related experiences?  

[SIZE=11pt]I had/have the exact same problem. I was taking around 2-3,000 mg a day (yes, thousand), and took around 800 mg before bed last year and had a seizure and ended up in the hospital for a few days. I'm back to high doses again (starting gradual taper tomorrow...) and as I fall asleep I am always having the big jerks (and making noises in my sleep). I also thought the big jerks were myoclonic jerks, and I started taking L-Tyrosine before bed which seemed to help. I have not tried 5-HTP, but some studies show it can be helpful for [/SIZE]myoclonic jerks. I have some suggestions/information for you, since I had serotonin syndrome and a clonic-tonic seizure and so wish I could stop it from happening to someone:

[SIZE=11pt]1) Try the L-Tyrosine and maybe the 5-HTP[/SIZE]

2) If you can get other meds, a benzo is probably the best thing you can use to help you at night: it can lessen muscle movements, it will help you sleep, and it will reduce anxiety.

[SIZE=11pt]3) It also couldn't hurt to take an anti-[/SIZE][SIZE=14.6667px]seizure med [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt](e.g., levetiracetam, etc.), but the benzo should have you covered.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]4) Pretty important: the zoloft and prozac both only affect serotonin and not norepinephrine, where tramadol affects both. If you are off of ALL tramadol (don't want to risk serotonin [/SIZE][SIZE=14.6667px]syndrome[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]), a much better option would be an SNRI. These affect both serotonin and norepinephrine (e.g., effexor, cymbalta, pristiq, or, best of all fetzima, as it works on almost equal parts serotonin and norepinephrine where others only do a bit of norepinephrine). If you have insurance and are planning to quit long term, fetzima helped me so much because it had all the serotonin and norepinephrine I found so good in trams, but no pain killer, obviously.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Please feel free to get in touch with me with anything else that you might want to know, and I'd be happy to share anything I can.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]If you have any tips for getting energy when off of trams, I am all ears since it is my biggest problem. I think I'll have to really exercise more, but other ideas are most welcome.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Best of luck to you, my friend.[/SIZE]

 

[Solid Snoop]

When I was on trams only at very low doses I never slept for weeks on end. I was in bed, comfortable and in a semi dream like state but.always knew I was in bed and awake. I some times fell asleep but within minutes I got the good old falling.dream  and would jerk.

Now that I'm on Bennies I sleep like a baby but I'd rather not sleep than be on this crap.

 

[ElectroNymph]

I had restless legs and couldn't sleep after only a week of tramadol use! The only thing that stopped it was benzos. The issue is, not becoming too dependent on the benzos, as they are thought to be worse to get off than heroin.

 

[blissopifree 2]

I get spasms when I've been on a Bnz binge,I can be laying there and my arm will shoot up for no reason? 

Peace 

Bliss ....

 

[saccade]

This is likely because of a chemically interrupted sleep cycle - usually your body will be paralysed when asleep, to stop you acting out your dreams (some people wake up during this period and it is where the notion of the Succubus that sits on your chest at night comes from).

When the sleep cycle returns to normal, light, deep, rem, returns, etc... - the twitching will stop, but - I often jerk awake due to external factor - heard a girl screaming for help in my dream the other night, turned out it was a woman being attacked in an alley near my place, so I woke up with a shot of adrenaline and a bad mood to go see what was what.

She was fine.

But - the twitches and stuff - that's just part of the way the drugs mess up the natural sleep cycle, mate - maybe you can't remember your dreams.
Apparently, I used to throw punches in my sleep - in the morning when my mate'd tell me, I'd say, "oh yeah, I was having a dream that I was in a fight".

That was because of certain drug cocktails.

Never happened since I quit those cocktails (apparently, I am totally still when I'm asleep now to the point that people worry I am dead and check to make sure I'm breathing ).

 

[Phrenicz]

Ha!

My ex used to say sleeping in the same bed as me, was like was like sleeping with a coma victim being zapped with a cattle rod! I was kicking her, elbowing her, jolting about and all kinds of shit?! Although, I think she gave as good as she got, cause I used to regularly wake up suspiciously sore! Although, I'm sure I deserved the odd sneaky elbow or two ; ).. 

I find the the worst twitching and jerking comes after quite heavy opiate use and xan@x..  The latter puts my head to sleep, but seems to keep my body awake? Whereas if i do the same combo with Clonaz3pam or Diaz3pam, with their added muscle relaxing properties, I seem to wake up in the exact position I went to sleep in? No matter how awkward!! Hanging off the bed, diagonally, upside down, in the wardrobe, you name it!.. 

 

[SaintAlien]

It's your neurons firing - it's hell - I air punched while kicking

Go to the ER that is literally the ONLY way you'll get what you need and it will help a tad with sleep

 

[rockytop]

Sorry, for long time before update and response.  I've been off Tr@mps since my original post.  But, all summer i still had the jerks and twitches and stuff.  It's only now that they are subsiding.  I think a lot of it was my sleep cycle was totally screwed and the more sleep deprived you become the more likely you are to get what my Dr. says are "hypnotic jerks".  Also anxiety plays a key roll.  Now that i'm sleeping better the jerks and twitches are better but if i'm really tired or anxious they come back.  Not sure how much of a roll the Tr@mps played in all this but i'm glad i'm finally getting back to normal.   Thanks for everyone's input and advice!

[SIZE=11pt]I had/have the exact same problem. I was taking around 2-3,000 mg a day (yes, thousand), and took around 800 mg before bed last year and had a seizure and ended up in the hospital for a few days. I'm back to high doses again (starting gradual taper tomorrow...) and as I fall asleep I am always having the big jerks (and making noises in my sleep). I also thought the big jerks were myoclonic jerks, and I started taking L-Tyrosine before bed which seemed to help. I have not tried 5-HTP, but some studies show it can be helpful for [/SIZE]myoclonic jerks. I have some suggestions/information for you, since I had serotonin syndrome and a clonic-tonic seizure and so wish I could stop it from happening to someone:

[SIZE=11pt]1) Try the L-Tyrosine and maybe the 5-HTP[/SIZE]

2) If you can get other meds, a benzo is probably the best thing you can use to help you at night: it can lessen muscle movements, it will help you sleep, and it will reduce anxiety.

[SIZE=11pt]3) It also couldn't hurt to take an anti-[/SIZE][SIZE=14.6667px]seizure med [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt](e.g., levetiracetam, etc.), but the benzo should have you covered.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]4) Pretty important: the zoloft and prozac both only affect serotonin and not norepinephrine, where tramadol affects both. If you are off of ALL tramadol (don't want to risk serotonin [/SIZE][SIZE=14.6667px]syndrome[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]), a much better option would be an SNRI. These affect both serotonin and norepinephrine (e.g., effexor, cymbalta, pristiq, or, best of all fetzima, as it works on almost equal parts serotonin and norepinephrine where others only do a bit of norepinephrine). If you have insurance and are planning to quit long term, fetzima helped me so much because it had all the serotonin and norepinephrine I found so good in trams, but no pain killer, obviously.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Please feel free to get in touch with me with anything else that you might want to know, and I'd be happy to share anything I can.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]If you have any tips for getting energy when off of trams, I am all ears since it is my biggest problem. I think I'll have to really exercise more, but other ideas are most welcome.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Best of luck to you, my friend.[/SIZE]

Awesome advice, thanks!   I wish i looked at this earlier, you were spot on with a lot of what you said, my Dr. did put me on benzos and they helped alot!  hit me up as well if you need anything!

 

[PTFC]

Great to hear @rockytop, I've come off the tramps myself. Though ended up with a different dependence for my trouble ?

 

[Phrenicz]

I've been on and off the little yellow and green bastards more times than I can remember!! But like you @PTFC, Something else always takes their place!! And I'm currently well in the throws of an 'on' period, along with all the other things that took their place?! 

And no, the irony of the situation is definitely not lost on me! 

Kudos for the perseverance @rockytop : )... I know just how hard that journey is!

~P~

 

[rockytop]

I've been on and off the little yellow and green bastards more times than I can remember!! But like you @PTFC, Something else always takes their place!! And I'm currently well in the throws of an 'on' period, along with all the other things that took their place?! 

And no, the irony of the situation is definitely not lost on me! 

Kudos for the perseverance @rockytop : )... I know just how hard that journey is!

~P~

thanks buddy.  it's definitely a love/hate relationship.  I wish i could take them occasionally or for recreation purposes only because i love the buzz.  But, it always ends up being like the GnR song "Mr. Brownstone"...."I used to take a little......".....you know the rest.   PM me if you ever decide to take the dive and stop again and need support.  

 

[Phrenicz]

thanks buddy.  it's definitely a love/hate relationship.  I wish i could take them occasionally or for recreation purposes only because i love the buzz.  But, it always ends up being like the GnR song "Mr. Brownstone"...."I used to take a little......".....you know the rest.   PM me if you ever decide to take the dive and stop again and need support.  

No problem RT and much appreciated, the same goes for you if you ever get snared back in the tramanet! ; )

And yes, I too have the same relationship with them!

And a cracking bonus mention of Mr brownstone! One of my all time vavourite GnR tunes, and very, very apt! They were all fully on the h3roin train at that time I believe... 

Cracking opening riff to that tune : )

 

[rockytop]

No problem RT and much appreciated, the same goes for you if you ever get snared back in the tramanet! ; )

And yes, I too have the same relationship with them!

And a cracking bonus mention of Mr brownstone! One of my all time vavourite GnR tunes, and very, very apt! They were all fully on the h3roin train at that time I believe... 

Cracking opening riff to that tune : )

there's a GNR concert from 2014 on axs channel being replayed alot, before Axle really chunked up....they do a great job on brownstone, but not the same without Slash.   Kepp fighting the good fight!