Some extra eyes for a cycle plan, please?

[Zottman]

So I've planned my second cycle for this year, but I always like to have my plans reviewed / criticized / tweaked by other folks with a few cycles under their belt.  I'd like to put on as much lean mass as I can in 12 weeks (which is realistically only 18-20 pounds or so, 14-15 of which I'll be able to keep if I'm careful).  Here's the shopping list (I won't start a cycle until everything I need is in my hot little hands):

1. Test Dep@t (Galenika) 250mg - 40 amps
   
2. Deca Dur@b@lin (Organon) 100mg - 30 amps
   
3. An@bol 5mg (British Dispensary) - 200 tabs
   
4. C@bergoline/D@stinex 0.5mg - 12 tabs
   
5. @rimidex (An@str@z@le) 1mg - 28 tabs
   
6. Pr@viron 25mg - 56 tabs
   
7. HCG 10000iu                     
   
8. Cl@mid 50mg - 20 tabs
   
9. N@lvadex/T@m@xifene 20mg - 30 tabs
   

This is a pretty standard mid-year cycle for me, my first two cycles of the year emphasize the androgens, and I increase calories (while still eating clean; an extra Dymatize Elite shake an hour pre-workout, and increased portion sizes of my usual meals, maybe 1/3 more meat and dairy per meal).  This is also the time of year I'll go through a tub of Miralax

Sadly, I've had too many disappointments with bunk Niles, Karachis, and UGL S@sten@ns to use my favorite test@ster@ne any longer, unless I literally see Organon Redi-jects purchased at a large Farmacia chain store (they still don't require prescriptions) and somehow gotten back to the US by someone on the same plane I'm on.  Omnas are so faked now it isn't worth bothering with them, so, on to my second favorite choice - Pharma grade Galenika Enanthate from a trusted source.

Sigh.  An ode to S@sten@n, but let's continue:

Week One: 500mg Enanthate (250mg Monday, 250mg Thursday), 300mg Deca (these are 100mg amps, so I'll just add 100mg to Monday and Thursday's shots, and do a calf shot or a delt shot of 100mg Deca alone for this week, 40mg @nabol (split into 4 10mg doses on non-training days, and two 20mg doses on training days (1 hour before starting, and right after finishing, washed down with my 50mg whey.  Half an Arimidex tab daily, and a whole Proviron tab daily.

Week Two: 500mg Enanthate (250mg Monday, 250mg Thursday), 300mg Deca (these are 100mg amps, so I'll just add 100mg to Monday and Thursday's shots, and do a calf shot or a delt shot of 100mg Deca alone for this week, 40mg @nabol (split into 4 10mg doses on non-training days, and two 20mg doses on training days (1 hour before starting, and right after finishing, washed down with my 50mg whey. Half an Arimidex tab daily, and a whole Proviron tab daily.

Week Three: The Enanthate should be kicking in nicely by now, so I'll take it up to 750mg (250mg each M-W-F), and add 100mg Deca to each of those shots.  @nabol gets cut down to 30mg / day, split into three doses of 10mg each on non-training days, and on training days, 15mg an hour before the gym, then 15mg right after finishing, washed down with my 50mg whey. Half an Arimidex tab daily, and a whole Proviron tab daily. I'll also pin 500iu HCG at the end of this week.

Week Four: 750mg Enanthate, 300mg Deca (M-W-F) as usual, and since this is the last week of the @anabol, 30mg / day, split into three doses of 10mg each on non-training days, and on training  days, 15mg an hour before the gym, then 15mg right after finishing, washed down with my 50mg whey. Half an Arimidex tab daily, and a whole Proviron tab daily.

Week Five: 750mg Enanthate, 300mg Deca (M-W-F) as usual, Half an Arimidex tab daily, and a whole Proviron tab daily.

Week Six: 750mg Enanthate, 300mg Deca (M-W-F) as usual, Half an Arimidex tab daily, and a whole Proviron tab daily. I'll also pin 500iu HCG at the end of this week.

Week Seven: 750mg Enanthate, 300mg Deca (M-W-F) as usual, Half an Arimidex tab daily, and a whole Proviron tab daily.

Week Eight: 750mg Enanthate, 300mg Deca (M-W-F) as usual, Half an Arimidex tab daily, and a whole Proviron tab daily.

Week Nine: 750mg Enanthate, 300mg Deca (M-W-F) as usual, Half an Arimidex tab daily, and a whole Proviron tab daily. I'll also pin 500iu HCG at the end of this week.

Week Ten: 750mg Enanthate, 300mg Deca (M-W-F) as usual, Half an Arimidex tab daily, and a whole Proviron tab daily.

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PCT

Week Eleven: On Monday, 5000iu HCG, 100mg Clomid, 20mg Nolvadex, 0.5mg C@bergoline/D@stinex.  Every other day of the week, 100mg Clomid, 20mg Nolvadex.

Week Twelve: On Monday, 5000iu HCG, 50mg Clomid, 20mg Nolvadex, 0.5mg C@bergoline/D@stinex.  Every other day of the week, 50mg Clomid, 20mg Nolvadex.

Week Thirteen: On Monday, 1500iu HCG, 20mg Nolvadex, 0.5mg C@bergoline/D@stinex.  Every other day of the week, 20mg Nolvadex.

Week Fourteen: 20mg Nolvadex, 0.5mg C@bergoline/D@stinex.  Every other day of the week, 20mg Nolvadex.

Thoughts?

Thanks, Zottman

 

[Payton34]

Your pct should be at least as long as you are on cycle to recover fully. I would take the 50 mg Clomid daily for 10 weeks. That's a lot of Hcg, but it won't hurt you. It needs to be consistent daily. Also your cycle should be more consistent with dosages b/c your blood levels & hormones will be all over the place changing it so often. The chances of side effects are higher if you dont use consistent dosages. Also, deca can cause massive bloat & generally has water retention qualities. If you don't want get lean & big fast; consider tren, but research the side effects first. There is nothing more powerful. 

 

[Zottman]

Yeah, Tren and I don't get along well.  The night sweats, the Tren cough, the daily pinning (I know there's a Tren Enanthate out there now, but it's all UGL, and even if it works as advertised, you're going to have all of the sides, just less pinning and coughing).

I'm only throwing in such a low dose of Deca (300mg) to keep my joints lubed up by causing a tiny amount of water retention.  400mg a week or more seems to be where Deca starts to bloat me, especially running it with Dbol.

PCT as long as the cycle itself was?  Is that something new?  My usual PCT is 4 weeks, although sometimes I'll go for 6 weeks and up the HCG, Nolva, and Caber dosages if I've really busted out the androgens.  Arimidex while I'm on will be my aromatase inhibitor (reducing the production of estrogen by blocking the aromatase enzyme - It gets expensive at half a tab a day, but it works great for keeping bloating down). 

For PCT though, It's Nolvadex all the way - (with Clomid for insurance).  Nolvadex can also have a HUGE effect on recovery of the HPTA axis post-cycle.  One study suggests that significant increases in Luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), and testosterone are experienced with administration of Nolvadex in PCT. Some research suggests that just 20mg of Nolvadex taken each day can raise testosterone by 150%. It would take roughly 150mg of Clomid each day to achieve the same level of result.  Nolvadex is also safer to use long term versus some of the other alternative ancillaries commonly used post cycle. Nolva has a much lower toxicity, and is just simply better suited for long term use without further having a negative impact on overall health, and even provides some nice health benefits.

Oh, crap, girlfriend wants to go to Chili's.  I'll be back to finish up

 

[Zottman]

I'm with you, @Payton34, on keeping more consistent dosages - But I've tried one 10-week cycle at 1.75g of Test (250mg of Testoviron Depot) every day, seven days a week (because the biggest guy at Gold's told me that's what he ran), and no one but an actor or a sponsored pro could make that work.  I ended that cycle after 3 weeks feeling like a beach ball,  because no normal person can afford enough anti-e's to prevent side effects on that large a dosage of testosterone, especially a Depot (long lasting) testosterone.  There's a roid calculator somewhere on the 'net that lets you plug in your gear and how much of it remains in your system on a weekly basis - The old school guys used to pin once a week and gobble orals the rest of the week, until someone figured out that Depot Testosterones take a couple of weeks to kick in, so they needed to reverse their approach.  You want an anabolic / androgenic boost as soon as you start your cycle (if it's a mass cycle), so you go with a "wet" oral, one that's going to give you moon face in a week.  Anadrol's the king in that department, but I feel sick as a dog on Anadrol, so I go with the second best choice...The "breakfast of champions", Dianabol.  British Dispensary if I can get it in a tub sealed with plastic (The British Dispensary is online, and has a contact form with email interactive chat, and telephone number, and they will verify the batch number on a tub, but odds are, if your tub isn't still sealed in plastic, it is bunk anyway), or Pronabol from India in foil packets.  If my guy can't get either, then I just order from yj, his generic 10mg tabs are outstanding.  One nice thing about Dbol - If your face isn't round, your blood pressure hasn't gone up, and your lifts haven't increased in a week, you know it's fake!

Anyway, I use the Dbol for four weeks, gradually lowering the dosage as the Depot Testosterone starts to reach the peak level I want in my bloodstream (free Test, not just NP/GL), I have a spreadsheet for that.  I've found four weeks to be the average to get to that point, so I stop the Dbol at the end of week 4.  I've been on Arimidex the entire time, as you can see, and with the relatively low dosage of Test I'm using (and this is highly subjective - For me, 750mg a week is about all the Test it's worth it to run, running a gram or a gram and a half doesn't get me any better results, just worse sides...But I do know guys at the gym who blast 2g a week for 8 weeks, cruise on 500mg a week for 8 weeks, then blast again, all year round.  There's no way they are healthy, but their genetics allow them to over-saturate their receptors and still make gains...I mean these guys are monsters).

So for me, consistent dosing, considering I know I'm not going over 750mg of Depot Test a week, is M-W-F.  I'm usually out doing shit with the girlfriend on weekends, so I can't be pinning on Saturdays and Sundays.  I start the Depot Test at 500mg a week because I'm taking a moderately high dose of Dbol, and I don't want to look like the Pillsbury doughboy, so when I start to taper the Dbol, I increase the Test to 750mg a week. It's a Depot, so every shot is going to stay in my system from 8-12 days (depending on the brand - Hell, they say Sust is active for 17 days), and every shot is overlapping and stacking in my bloodstream, per my spreadsheet sometimes it gets near 900mg total (not free) testosterone.  That seems to be where my receptors are comfortable, because I've grown constantly on this  dose for four years - Maybe because I only do three runs a year, and one is all  anabolics with just a touch of Prop for pre-contest.  I don't do PCT the entire time between cycles, but the PCT regimen I laid out above works fine for me, and I continue to eat clean, train hard, and get plenty of sleep, even when I'm off - No Doritos, no Buffalo Wings, no Pizza - I love that shit, but I'm still motivated enough to at least shoot for an NPC placing, even if I never get a pro card.

I guess I'm not keeping up with the BB forums or the Muscle rags like I used to - Some of your suggestions are interesting, I'm going to have to go see what the bro-science guys have come up with in the last couple of years, sometimes they come up with brilliant shit that makes guys like Bill Roberts jump up and down screaming "blasphemy"!

Thanks for looking thins over @Payton34, I honestly appreciate it.

 

[Payton34]

Sounds good. I would research the idea of running pct at least as long as your cycle. Just google it; you want to make sure your body fully recovers. If you have any experience with trinity; please pm me. Thanks

 

[Zottman]

@Payton34 - By all means I'll google that - I want my twig and berries undamaged for the rest of my life, and I don't want to grow moobs between cycles, but I'll ask around on professionalmuscle as well [Safe link with no referral back to DGB: http://preview.tinyurl.com/hw6chpu]

They seem to be the best of the remaining BB forums that remain, and pros like Phil Heath will show up every now and then.  One of the mods, Big A, is a pro as well.

BTW, what are you using as liver protection?  I'm still using Liv.52 because the study results (Safe link: http://preview.tinyurl.com/zh9jzrv)

indicate that it even helps patients with cirrhosis (and it's a herbal product), but would be interested to know if there are newer, better products available.

@trinity!  Have mercy on us and give us your contact info, please!