Vendors Only Forum

[CalFresh]

Has anyone ever considered a Vendors Only Forum here? It would be useful for commiserating about trending customer scams and calling out scammers without having to expose our conversations to those same scammers. Plus we could talk op sec and shipping issues, swap funny stories about the ridiculous requests we get from folks, talk sourcing and pricing, and we could work trades to widen our offerings. There's a bunch of stuff it would be advantageous for us to be able to discuss away from the eyes of the public user/customers. We pay a premium to be listed here, I think it would be nice to expand the community offerings to our side of the house.

Any other vendors agree? Any reasons this might be problematic?

 

[luquitoad]

It could help normalize prices, as I've seen price ranges to the extreme.

 

[CBL]

This forum was designed and built primarily for we (paying) customers, and as such I would not love it if there were a vendor-exclusive thread here. I can see such an area operating for ill as well as for good. If pricing differences are an issue, then we as customers should be discussing it with you as vendors out in the open, where "everyone" can see it. But it's not my call, of course. @Admin

That said, there's nothing keeping any of you vendors from creating your own forum, right?

 

[iamgroot]

Agreed. I've been scammed by customers before, and others have tried but failed. Some said they'd pay later and then disappeared. Others claimed they received an empty package. There are so many ways people try to scam vendors. Customers who do this should be exposed here.

 

[Heman]

Could say the same for members tired of being scammed and ripped off by unscrupulous and greedy or just careless and indifferent vendors.

Maybe you will find confidence in vendors plummets further than it already is if you start hiding behind another layer of secrecy, where you plot against members you don't like and collude on pricing. Bc that will be the perception, or how would the Vendor's Only place be regulated to ensure that didn't happen?

I think you would find that problematic to your bottom line - probably more-so than losing a few packs to unscrupulous members. You would also find vendors who don't want to join the club and will advertise the fact in competition with you to attract members who don't like the idea of vendors organizing against their interests.

Like another member here said, nothing stopping you from starting your own forum. Or you could start a thread of Vendor's Complaints, see how that goes? (in a non public forum) But either way, I bet there would be leaks from your secret gatherings and that could prove embarrassing, or worse - could drive custom elsewhere, or just provide more impetus for an alternative forum.

And while we're at it. How about vendors offer some protection to ordinary members coin from being lost to or by you before you start organizing against them? Tired Of The Scammers, Tired Of Being Scammed?

How to mitigate against some of the undesirable in human nature, that's the question.

Just my 2c.

 

[CalFresh]

This forum was designed and built primarily for we (paying) customers, and as such I would not love it if there were a vendor-exclusive thread here. I can see such an area operating for ill as well as for good. If pricing differences are an issue, then we as customers should be discussing it with you as vendors out in the open, where "everyone" can see it. But it's not my call, of course. @Admin

That said, there's nothing keeping any of you vendors from creating your own forum, right?

Just so you know, we vendors pay much more than you sponsors do to get a listing on this site. The site is here for all of us. And I would think any nefarious behavior would be stopped by admin just like in any other part of the site. There's nothing preventing open discussions of pricing differences at this point, but it would be nice to be able to check with other vendors about problematic customers looking to scam free product before saying something publicly or to discuss new customer scams to be on the lookout for, talk about opsec procedures, or USPS issues, etc.

 

[CalFresh]

Could say the same for members tired of being scammed and ripped off by unscrupulous and greedy or just careless and indifferent vendors.

Maybe you will find confidence in vendors plummets further than it already is if you start hiding behind another layer of secrecy, where you plot against members you don't like and collude on pricing. Bc that will be the perception, or how would the Vendor's Only place be regulated to ensure that didn't happen?

I think you would find that problematic to your bottom line - probably more-so than losing a few packs to unscrupulous members. You would also find vendors who don't want to join the club and will advertise the fact in competition with you to attract members who don't like the idea of vendors organizing against their interests.

Like another member here said, nothing stopping you from starting your own forum. Or you could start a thread of Vendor's Complaints, see how that goes? (in a non public forum) But either way, I bet there would be leaks from your secret gatherings and that could prove embarrassing, or worse - could drive custom elsewhere, or just provide more impetus for an alternative forum.

And while we're at it. How about vendors offer some protection to ordinary members coin from being lost to or by you before you start organizing against them? Tired Of The Scammers, Tired Of Being Scammed?

How to mitigate against some of the undesirable in human nature, that's the question.

Just my 2c.

This comment is exactly why it would be nice for us to have a forum in private. Uninformed users with a chip on their shoulders hi-jacking threads with comments that add nothing to the conversation and only distract from substantive discourse. It's not all about you buddy. And if vendors were using the thread to collude against customers that would be a clear violation of the site's purpose and intent and would be squashed by admin immediately. I'm sure admin doesn't need the headache of more babysitting tasks, but i highly doubt any legit vendor would partake in such activities and any paying vendor doing so would be exposing themselves as fraudulent, be kicked off the forum, and lose their vendor fee.

And for what it's worth, if you really feel like every vendor is a scammer and we're all just trying to figure out the best way to rip you off, then what are you doing here? That's what reviews are for. If you don't want to get robbed, only buy from vendors with a history of positive reviews. There are long standing members willing to stake a few dollars on small orders testing out new vendors for legitimacy. Let them do that and let vendors build a reputation before you go throwing hundreds of dollars at some new vendor offering ridiculous pricing and incentives for your favorite RC and then complaining that you got got.

Be smart about where and how you spend your money and this place will lead you to safety and satisfaction. That's the whole point of DBG and I think that purpose could be strengthened by offering vendors a place to discuss issues away from customers. Could we do it elsewhere? certainly, but it would be more difficult and DBG's interests might be better served to keep those discussions here where they can be monitored.

 

[Heman]

Way to distort, misrepresent and take what I say out of context. Making it personal never helps.

Why the anger, there are some excellent, some good, indifferent, crap and scammy vendors (and members) - the way it is.

Just saying it the way I see it, people will get up to shit in secret, especially about money. Denying that is just unreal, even if you don't envisage doing it yourself. It's not all about you buddy.

They are not really unrelated issues, scamming is just that, and when vendors get away with it so much it's a bit rich to see one calling for their own private forum to discuss scamming members and prices in secret.

What do you think of the idea to protect against members being scammed, of new unverified vendors paying a security deposit against members illegitimate losses in dealing with them?

The issue of scamming needs a whole-view approach imo. And it can only be done from the top down.

 

[brainchem]

I think the point that is being missed is that this idea likely wasn't publicly posted in bad faith. Especially by Cal who has a reputation for being a good dude. I think taking this: "commiserating about trending customer scams and calling out scammers without having to expose our conversations to those same scammers. Plus we could talk op sec and shipping issues, swap funny stories about the ridiculous requests we get from folks, talk sourcing" and misrepresenting it as this: "where you plot against members you don't like and collude on pricing." Is the only mischaracterization going on here.

No one said anything about plotting, and scammers have nothing to do with people we like or dont like. Most if not all of the time we deal with scammers it's someone we hadnt even formed an opinion on (before the time it takes them to try their scam). At least that's been my experience.

I agree that it would be better if it was regulated somehow but I also agree that actual legitimate vendors dont have time to deal with anything that isn't helpful to improving their efficiency and safety/security. Also all of the prices are public information anyway.

 

[Heman]

You too are entitled to your opinion, then allow me mine.

Here's the full quote of first post "Has anyone ever considered a Vendors Only Forum here? It would be useful for commiserating about trending customer scams and calling out scammers without having to expose our conversations to those same scammers. Plus we could talk op sec and shipping issues, swap funny stories about the ridiculous requests we get from folks, talk sourcing and pricing, and we could work trades to widen our offerings. There's a bunch of stuff it would be advantageous for us to be able to discuss away from the eyes of the public user/customers. We pay a premium to be listed here, I think it would be nice to expand the community offerings to our side of the house.

Any other vendors agree? Any reasons this might be problematic?"

I think that it wasn't posted in bad faith is not the point, it is simply condescending of members in general, and divisive in a climate of distrust. If you want understanding (or trust, which you will need if a vendors only forum isn't to be taken as further division and cause for distrust) you need to quantify the problem you have with members scamming you, not just accuse members generally and off-handedly, if it's so much to warrant your own secret forum (where you can do everything else you want). It is naive to suggest such a space would only nurture innocent exchanges, that just isn't credible. We both pay a premium, and quantify-ably it's the members who get scammed - just check the black list, though granted they have not all been DBG vendors.

I pointed out where this proposal might be problematic and you guys didn't like it, fair enough. I think suggesting it's a misrepresentation for me to say 'the perception' will be 'you plot against members you don't like and collude on pricing' after reading the first post, and having witnessed the dismissive and negative attitudes of some vendors towards some 'difficult' members, is a mischaracterization of what I wrote in the context of a prevailing distrust, especially but not only after a recent spate of scammers posing as vendors.

I would like to see some measures taken to stem the possibilities for scammers posing as vendors, for which I have made a proposal no vendor has opined on so far - a security deposit be required from new unverified vendors as at least a token guarantee of members coin from disappearing down that black hole.

I believe this is needed as a re-balancing of power where members can be more at ease buying, that would drop the temperature of this 'us and them' mentality that prevails and allow for a more trusting ambience - that does manifest on some vendors threads, though gushing 'reviews' are not its measure.

In a more trusting environment I would have no objection to a vendors only space, as long as there is a corresponding private space for buyers only, where we could speak freely about vendors and maybe stop a scammer (or just stop a failure from taking members down with them) before they get too far into our hard earned coin.

Suggesting such losses are just a measure of an unwary or impetuous buyer is disingenuous, and an indicator of bad faith, when the only way to find out if a vendor is honest is for someone to lay out the coin with no guarantees.

So yes, I think this Vendor Only Forum could be problematic, under prevailing conditions. Oc YMMV.

 

[Jernigan89]

I'm given to believe that there are a few Signal groups that serve this purpose.

That said, I can't imagine that it'd be difficult or expensive to create a vendors-only subforum here. Nor do i see what kind of harm such a subforum could do...