Congratulations to our UK cousins on Brexit!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Back2Good
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As I started this thread, let me put my well-worn thinking cap on and try to explain my "congratulations". 

First and foremost, as is my wont, let's remember that Britain leaving the EU is a big deal for the EU...But not for Britain's security, or America's.  Britain's ties with foreign security services (especially under the auspices of the "Special Arrangement" between Britain and America) won't be affected by the Brexit in the least bit - In the JSOC community we used to sneer when a "Deputy Liaison for Intelligence Sharing" from Brussels would show up at briefings, knowing the EU has countless "liaison" positions in intelligence, but the real work is done in London, Paris, Berlin, Jerusalem, and Washington, D.C.

Regardless of what the shouters on the television and radio say, from where I'm standing Brexit looks to improve Britain's security situation rather than degrade it.

Secondly, the choice Britons had boiled down to this: Fear or Freedom.  You chose Freedom, decisively, as the the British people have always done.  Fears of economic catastrophe?  Fears of being isolated from the very nations you've liberated, more than once?

Look: Britain presides over the world's fifth-largest economy (edging out France for the spot last year), the fourth- or fifth-largest military, and -- it cannot be measured precisely but is nonetheless palpable -- a common law tradition that has underwritten democratic institutions, self-rule, and individual liberty.  As far as I'm concerned, Brexit is a step towards global order being restored, and you should pride yourselves on having the stones to take that first step.

Yes, yes.  There will be short-term turmoil. The pound is off and nearly everyone expects turbulence in the markets. Long-term, however, and it will not be that long in coming, Britain's assertion of its right to govern itself will redound to its own and the world's economic vitality.

I should add, under the rule of full disclosure, that I am of the old guard - I'm 61 years old, I'm American (Hell, I'm Texan!) and my viewpoints will no doubt clash (although let us hope not violently) with many of yours on occasion, but I'll leave you with this: There are students in the UK complaining about Brexit: "A really important decision was made for us by the older generation"..."Essentially people much, much older than us - And those people won't be around for the consequences are giving us a future we don't want."

Richard Fernandez responds pragmatically on Facebook:

Essentially people much older than you gave you what you now take for granted. They won World War 2, fueled the great boom, walked through the valley of the shadow of nuclear death — and had you.

You didn’t make the present, nor as you now complain, are you making the future. No children, no national defense, no love of God or country.

But that’s just it. You’ve brainwashed yourselves into thinking someone else: the old, the older, the government, the dead would always do things for you.

If you learn anything from Brexit, learn that nobody got anywhere expecting someone to do things for him.

Ouch. Hooah. Sua Sponte.

Respectfully,

- b2g
 
@Back2Good Not much more I can add to that mate, perfectly well put! Sounds like you have similar political thoughts to me. Ill informed people laud the EU because of 'European Unity'. That can exist in a Europe of sovereign nations, but ones which work together. This is a globalised world...there's no avoiding that (...for now!), but a soverign nation does not equal division!

I want to see a Europe so unified, but each nation having its own unique heritage and culture. In a globalised world, Europe does need to band together, yes, but in the form of the EU? No. At the sacrafice of identity? No! My dream: A united Europe with its own proud nation states, but all allied together. Why? Because we are all European. I dream of a Europe that would never invade a foreign country. And a Europe that no-one dared to invade. That is no bad thing, it's the safety of Europe.

And yeah, about the young lefty folk. I'm ashamed to say that I'm a student, slightly more mature than my 'peers', but still a student, despite my older(ish!) age. I am ashamed. I respect my elders. That's an understatement. Little gestures, like holding a door for them, being nice when one asks for directions. That's alien to a lot of UK students. When I have to be with them while studying...I want to cry. I can't emphasise enough just how much I respect my elders. I also listen to any bits of wisdom they have. All this should come naturally! But nowadays it seems that, to many, it doesn't...

The UK prides itself on being tolerant and open to other's opinions. Then if I say that I want my country to feel like my home, that I like Nigel Farage, then...you'd be shocked by the bile that's spewed at me. They say it's because I'm being hateful. Touch of irony there!

On a final note, loving your country and your own does not mean hating other countries and their own. Nationalism (not a dirty word) it's thus about love, not hate.

 
Yeah, it's a bit of a mess.  I don't think Parliament will overrule the people.  History has shown that is not a smart thing to do.  They could call for another referendum, but Cameron isn't moving about like there will be one.  We will see. 

 
It's really hard to predict what will happen...I can't see there being another in/out referendum...and as for a snap election...I'm not sure. I'm really not. But change requires a little bit of uncertainity, nothing wrong with that...

I've got to admit...I'm loving seeing the situation of the Labour party at the moment. It's comedy gold. Corbyn is making an absolute idiot out of himself and massively discrediting his party. If there was to be a snap election, Labour would be well and truly destroyed!

 
What takes the piss I think is the Brexit result was known nearly 2 month ago, and the Article 50 still ain't been triggerer. The excuse was we need to find another PM delayed it. Now we have one. We're still no closer to an exit then we were after the vote.  ANd the process of leaving onece the Article 50 is set in motion supposedly takes 2 years to finalize. Seem like the stalling isn't for the peoples benefit, but the people who pull the strings of are going to benefit more. 

 
What takes the piss I think is the Brexit result was known nearly 2 month ago, and the Article 50 still ain't been triggerer. The excuse was we need to find another PM delayed it. Now we have one. We're still no closer to an exit then we were after the vote.  ANd the process of leaving onece the Article 50 is set in motion supposedly takes 2 years to finalize. Seem like the stalling isn't for the peoples benefit, but the people who pull the strings of are going to benefit more. 
Yeah, I'd like to see article 50 being invoked and sharpish.

 
Personally, I see the end of EU membership as a disastrous move that will be bitterly regretted in the future. Many young people they feel the country is regressing into a nostalgic past that never was. The manipulation and lies that lead to this result are shameful, and, as usual, it is those who have the least security and assets in our society who will suffer. When will we ever learn.

 
That's possible @Marigold and definitely a worst case scenario , but I'm reasonably confident about the future outside what the EU has become. 

 
Not to go into too much detail, as I could go on about this subject for years!.. 

However, I think it's a good move... It's definitely a long termer, and things will get worse before they get better... But, during our time in the single market, our industry has gone to shit!.. We have no manufacturing facilities/machinery anymore... It was all scrapped or sold to India and China... Which means even the simplest things have to be manufactured in the aforementioned places and then shipped back to the UK?.. This is so backwards it's untrue! 

Even as little as 20 years ago, the words 'Made in England' meant quality and craftsmanship... Now, it means fuck all : (.. I'm hoping that this ethos and work ethic comes back to what was once a nation of pioneers and innovation... Cause if we go on at the rate we're going, eventually a loaf of fucking bread would have to be imported!!

It makes me extremely sad to see all the UK industry grinding/ground to a halt, when we have such a rich industrial heritage?!.. Not only that, we have sold off all our prospects, machinery, means and jobs to these other countries, just so the CEO's can make just that extra bit of profit while stepping on the working, proud countryman again!!.. Turning that once proud man/woman into a useless number with no real world qualifications or skills?!

Don't get me wrong, there are many other reasons I think it will be a good long term decision, but this is one that vexes me more than most!! 

~P~

 
Norway never joined the EU in the first place and we're doing quite well if i do say so myself :P

 
@Phrenicz Brilliant sentiments mate, I agree completely.

Personally, I don't trust May with Article 50. Yeah, she's got 'brexiters' in cabinet roles...but nothing's happened! And I feel that if we don't get a solid, full, and hasty leave...that people just won't do anything. I feel like there's a lot of apathy around...

It's nice to see Labour killing themselves, though...lol, hehe. Not a fan of them, so, yeah... :P

I was gutted when Steven Woolfe was disqualifed from the UKIP leadership, though. He would have run rings around Theresa May! He's a great speaker, and he grew up in Moss Side. He is from a working class background, is mixed race, and would appeal to everyone that UKIP needs to appeal to. But no...we have Diane James, part of the 'southern' sect of UKIP. *sigh*

So basically...Theresa May has no opposition.

Great... =/

 
I open my big mouth here and things change I guess.

In my last post I complained about May not moving forward with Article 50. Then the next day she gave a timeframe. Maybe Theresa May is secretly a member here. :P

Then I complained about Diane James and praised Steven Woolfe. Days later James quit.

But, man...Steven Woolfe. I was chuffed when I heard he's going to run again, but the news with him today was awful. He had two seizures after hitting his head. My heart just sank when I read that... seems like he'll make a full recovery, but it's just such an awful thing to happen...

And whatever that fight was about...FFS...would parties just stop imploding. It's not fashionable anymore. The Conservatives seem to be the only vaguely functioning party, and a lack of opposition is a bad way to be...

Moo... =(

 
@Nikolas I see what you mean, but I don't see Theresa May at a dead end in any way at all. I think, presuming that she goes ahead with the 'hard brexit', she'll be doing that based on the decision of the majority, so domestically that *could* do wonders for her reputation. She's also bound to be indulging in the lack of opposition. She must be having a whale of a time...

I think in terms of relations with other EU whipped sub-ordinates...er, I mean 'member states' (sorry, couldn't help it...), I don't think it's in either side's interest to dig in and not talk. Good relations will do both the UK and the EU good.

Sorry, don't think I'm adding much to the conversation, guess I'm just rambling...but I think (bit of a prediction here) that, compared to what's yet to come, these are pretty stable times for the EU.

 
@PTFC She never looks chuffed. :P I've always said that she's got 'melting face syndrome'. It's the only way I can describe it.

Even when she's posing for selfies as 'Mama Merkel' with migrants, it still looks like a kid has drawn a vaguely happy face on some melted candle wax.

Okay, I'm done now, haha. Sorry. :P

 
It would be good if the pound would stabilize and go up a bit.  Think a euro costs 35p more now, compared to what it was pre brexit. Can't see  that happening any time soon.  

 
Us norwegians never joined the EU and we're doing very well (partly because of the oil), but i have this feeling that we never joined is because we're to the left, politically, of the EU, while the reason Britain left is that they're to the right of the EU.

 
I don't know about anyone else, but the pound being on it's arse and still sinking is seriously fucking with my overseas medicine orders!!! I know that much!! 

Who's with me!! Grrrrrrrrrrr!! 

~P~

 
I don't know about anyone else, but the pound being on it's arse and still sinking is seriously fucking with my overseas medicine orders!!! I know that much!! 

Who's with me!! Grrrrrrrrrrr!! 

~P~
Totally agree with you. Can't see it going back to what it was before brexit vote, not even close. If anything it'll get worse once the article 50 is triggered and all the BS that comes with it starts

 
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