EU Customs query

[Zicky]

Hi all,

I'm brand new to this forum and I am currently expecting a delivery from the land of thai to my country in the EU (starts with a cz).

I've had things delivered in the past, but it was always through a private carrier, not the state post. It's never been a problem.

I've also had completely innocent personal packages coming through the post that get caught up in customs. *Usually* it's because whoever sent it didn't mark "gift" or put the value of the items too high, so customs has me come down there and pay taxes on it or sometimes they'll let me plead stupidity & *might* just let me have it without paying them. But they do always ask me what's inside (even though the sender has filled out the contents list on the customs form) and whether it's something I bought or from a friend or family member.

The tracking for my recent order says that it arrived in customs yesterday. This morning, I got a letter in my mailbox saying I had something to pick up from the post office (because they never deliver *anything* larger than a standard envelope, but it might also be because they need me to sign for it). I haven't had time to drop by the post office, but the notice asking me to pick up at the post office says that the package weighs 0.009kg, which is way too light. So, it might be a letter from customs asking me to pick up the package there. (Also, it could be something completely different, I'll update later after I go to the post office)

What I want to know is, should I attempt to go to the customs office & pick it up since this seems to be standard practice for items costing over €50?

If I do, should I tell them I'm not sure what it is, that it could be from my friend who is visiting Thailand, that I ordered some "supplements" from a holistic treatment center?

Or are there any red flags I should look out for when picking up the letter at the post office or when I'm at the customs office?

Thanks so much for any advice!

 

[PTFC]

This is a difficult one. I think you could be as well picking up the letter, but if it is what you think it is, would you really go to customs to pick anything up? Unless you are expecting something else other than what you know is coming. 

 

[Zicky]

PT, thanks for your reply.

From what I've seen, if they're going to hold anything, they hold it in customs. I wouldn't worry about bringing a slip to the post office notifying me I have a package because I can still claim ignorance if they start asking any questions. The slips don't say who the sender is or anything. Just my post office lady's name, when I can pick it up, when they'll return to sender, and the weight - for some reason.

So I'm always bringing these slips to the post office without knowing what to expect. They need to see my passport & sign that you've picked it up, and that's it. So I would know if anything was happening differently.

BUT to answer your question if I'd go to customs to pick it up (I still don't know if I'll need to, but just in case I might have to some day), that's what I came here hoping to find out about. When you get the letter saying to pick up the package in customs, they send you a photocopy of the address label. So I can't exactly claim ignorance (although I don't see why I couldn't just claim curiosity!). I was hoping someone here had had some similar experiences.

 

[Zicky]

UPDATE: I turned in the slip to the post office this evening & it was just a registered letter, completely unrelated to my order. So, I'm still waiting to see if it will clear customs and arrive at my local post office. 

I emailed the vendor & asked what details, if any, were on the package. He told me that he had sent it as a 'gift' and did not declare a monetary value. Which seems like good news to me.

Although, I saw somewhere on this forum that someone did have to pay an import tax on his package because it didn't have a value declared. After a short interview with him about the contents (spices from India, he said), they estimated the value and charged him €25, and he was merrily along his way. They never looked inside.

i know experiences can vary widely, but I've seen a lot on this forum about US & UK customs experiences, but not much (that I've found so far) about Europe. I wonder if they're a little more lax here? Or if it's just random as it is, to some extent, everywhere?

Just hoping to draw from the wealth of experience you all have!

 

[PTFC]

I know member Gyre posted about some customs issues, he was in The Netherlands, but is now unfortunately no longer with us (RIP). It does depend on the country of course. I know through some German members that their customs are extremely strict and rather punishing. Looking at the legal status of the item in your country is a good start though. 

 

[Zicky]

My country has pretty relaxed laws on illegal drugs (way more than germany). The law used to be weird & full of double negatives, roughly translated into English would be: "you cannot have more than a small amount." A couple of years ago, they determined what a "small amount" was & assigned weight values for what is tolerated. A gram for pretty much everything, 5 grams for weed & mushrooms. But that doesn't mean they won't intercept a package if they found them inside, even under the tolerated amounts. I'll check into the specific product I've ordered & see what I can find.

 

[Zicky]

Update: I recieved a slip in my mailbox today informing me there was something for me at the post office. I go down to the PO with really high hopes because the weight listed on my slip looked to be more than the typical 'registered letter' - but I was wrong. 

Instead, I got a letter informing me that my package is at customs, and that I need to go there to retrieve it. 

These letters to go pick up things at customs aren't new to me. I've done it several times before. But there are two differences here:

1. Usually along with the letter is a small form I am able to fill out, which gives the post office 'power of attorney' to collect my package from customs & charge me any import tax when they deliver it to me. I even offered the whole envelope with all documentation inside to the woman behind that counter to look for it & all she had to say was, "this is different" to the fact that it just wasn't there.

-I *do* have the option of going to the post's website and printing out the power of attorney form & submit it to the post office to see what happens.

-What was included (and it is usually there) was a form allowing them to communicate with me by email. It says at the bottom that I have to agree to continue email correspondence until the matter is finished (either until I get it or until it's returned to sender). I can choose to accept the package (continue with customs) or return to sender (if I don't know what it is, for example)  with this form as well.

2. Second difference: BIG one: It seems as if they opened my package & provided me a list of what's inside: one product listed under it's brand name & the 2nd says "package without signature."

It's the 2nd one that really has me worried, because a.) I wouldn't know how to give them a satisfactory reason for ordering this product from abroad (from Asia) instead of going to my local GP. And b.) because I don't know whether the importation of the first product or the second is worse, or the same, or doesn't matter because they're together anyway. The 2nd product (prec|n|s1) isn't really controlled because of abuse potential, but the first product (t1nd0|) is.

There aren't any special regulations for either of these medicines in my country, instead they defer to EU regulations which puts product number 1 in Class B & number 2 in Class C. (Although there is a long list of "tolerated" amounts of  nearly every drug. This doesn't make buying/selling legal, but you won't be prosecuted if caught with it.)

I'm also worried about having to explain why the 2nd item is in an unmarked(?) box, as it says on the contents list. And what could I say about that? (Forgot meds w/ a traveling friend & they mailed them back to me? - when I asked, the vendor told me he marked it as a "gift")

I still don't want to let go of my high hopes. The fact that they know what the first product is and they still mailed me the form to go pick it up makes me feel hopeful. But am I foolish? Are they just trying to get me down there? If so, why would they include the e-mail form?

Any help from experienced EU members would be greatly appreciated. Actually, any help at all will be greatly appreciated ?

thanks all!

Zicky

P.S. - Mod: may I/should I post a copy of this to the vendor's thread in this forum? Or perhaps, if you know of a more suitable topic to add this to, let me know? Thanks!

P.P.S.- I have ordered Class A controlled substances before with no problem. These items have never been opened or stopped at customs before, but if they had, there was a signed prescription inside which proved that it was all kosher.

 

[PTFC]

Interesting, in the UK, you would recieve a letter (LL Love Letter) to say that it had been intercepted and will be destroyed, also reminding you of the rules of importing scheduled items. A serious amount would get you a knock on the door however. 

Posting a picture should be okay, but omit any personal info of course. 

 

[Zicky]

a picture of what, exactly? the whole customs letter or where they list the contents? Because all of it is in Czech >.<

View attachment 1698

 

[Zicky]

Perhaps I could say item #2 is just plain paracetamol and my friend didn't realize it had to be properly labeled (on the inside of the package)... I feel even more hopeful that it's not the typical style of love letter...

Here is a related thread: 



Too bad Gyre's no longer around to help calm my nerves!! 

 

[PTFC]

I can make out Tindol on the letter anyway. What is the second item? If you prefer I can PM you if you would rather not say. 

Yes, Gyre was a fine person. Unfortunately he experimented a few times too many and we were informed he had passed away. We do have a few more continental EU members though, Italy, Germany, France etc. The UK is not in the EU customs union, in fact we won't be in the EU at all in a year or 2. If you can safely pick this stuff up then go for it @Zicky. Is it going to boil down to paying an customs fee or will they retain the goods and possibly arrest/charge you with an offence ? Click provides a return address on the box, that I do know. 

 

[PTFC]

I may have another option for you anyway. 

 

[Zicky]

Here's a tip in case anyone else has a similar issue in the future:

i should have asked the vendor to write that my package was a "gift" (or even "sample" would work, if it's obviously commercial) and to list the amount of the value of the products inside as less than €40(or check the current limit because recently it was €150). [This sucks only if you are planning on trying to collect insurance on a lost package.] You have to pay import tax on anything entering the EU that's valued higher than €45.

What happened to me was that my package got to the customs office with no description & no value attached. So they opened it up to see if they could determine the value. They couldn't, I guess - on the form in the photo I posted above there is nothing written in the space next to each product. No matter what I am getting from overseas, it always gets stopped at customs if the value is listed above €45 & I have to pay an import tax.

If I'd had the foresight to ask the vendor for this, I'd most definitely be sitting pretty right now.

Instead, I'm stuck between being too afraid of going to pick it up and wondering if I should try to muster up the courage and go to customs. On one hand, it could be a trap to prove that I intentionally ordered these things. But on the other, because it wasn't the typical Love Letter most people receive (of it being seized & destroyed), it almost seems like they don't care what it is as long as I pay them the proper fees. They want me to bring a receipt or bank statement to prove how much I paid for the goods.

Ahhh, I just feel like it's too much risk but it's torture knowing they are sitting there, waiting for me, and all it might take is just a simple trip to the customs office ?

 

[Zicky]

Update:

I found English versions of the forms I mentioned above.

This is the form giving the post office power of attorney to collect the package on my behalf (which was mysteriously not included in the letter from the customs office that I picked up yesterday):

https://www.ceskaposta.cz/documents/10180/483930/EN-plna-moc.pdf/3b32c785-89d5-4988-9f0b-5ef3d2fe2c51

And this is the form allowing them to communicate with me via email (which was included). This email form seems pretty harmless. I don't see anything stating that I am accepting ownership/responsibility of the item:

https://www.ceskaposta.cz/documents/10180/282453/EN-oznameni_o_prichodu_zasilek_z_ciziny.doc/ff642ccc-a8ae-483f-a9d2-33b025be2422

Advice I'm looking for: What would you do? Completely abandon it/return to sender? / Send in just the email form and see what they say? / Go ahead and submit the power of attorney form [or go to the customs office in person], figuring they are not too worried about it - especially because personal medication is allowed to enter the country?

I am worried they are going to ask me for a receipt (looks a lot more 'commercial' that way, i feel like) and I don't know if I should bring it. On one hand, it determines how much tax they need to charge, but it might have identifying info about the seller(?) - they said a bank statement would be fine. Also, I do not have any current (not-expired) prescriptions for this medication and I believe they might want to see that, too. It would definitely make me feel safer going there, if I had a script & it was all above board....

I also found this:

https://www.celnisprava.cz/en/clo/informace-pro-fyzicke-osoby/Pages/information-of-the-customs-administration-of-the-czech-republic-for-travellers-regarding-modifications-as-regards-imports-o.aspx  -It's a pretty comprehensive guideline for importing items to the EU. It mentions medications for personal/non-commercial use are ok. This link might be pretty helpful for more EU residents attempting to mail in from countries outside of the EU. Clear guidelines & helpful info.

I can't believe there aren't lots of people on here who've had this problem! Am I just a big dummy? Or too scared to walk in and collect my package in a communist-era customs office building full of mean looking guys in police uniforms?

 

[Zicky]

I think I may be very close to a happy ending.... BUT I've got one more question.

I got this email from customs today:

View attachment 1706

I almost feel like I'm splitting hairs here (I should just be happy that they seem willing to let it go through!), but I don't know what to say. I asked the vendor how he marked the customs form when he sent it and he said, 

"Hello

Send a gift
There is no price attached


Sincerely,
***********.com"

(*Vendor name removed)

So I don't know if I should tell customs it was a gift & that email could stand as a declaration? Or write him asking for a different declaration?

I'd be happy just to be honest & tell them it's purchased goods & pay the import tax. But, I'm worried that they will ask me to provide a prescription.

Any thoughts would be great.

@Solid Snoop, if you have any insight, let me know!

thanks

 

[PTFC]

I would be happy to mark it as a gift. It isnt a vast amount is it? But if you are beginning to worry too much, you may be better writing it off if you think you may get into any possible trouble. 

 

[Zicky]

Thanks again PFTC.

At this point, I'm a lot less worried that anything bad will happen. But I would like to try to see this through to the end to see if it's worth it to order from vendors outside of the EU. Or if there is a way I could ask the vendor to mark the package to avoid any of this in the future.

I was worried about this issue even before the package made it to Europe, because of my experiences with packages coming through customs in the past. 

I feel like if I send this one back, I won't order again from perfectly good vendors simply because I am afraid of walking into the customs office & claiming responsibility for it. 

I've emailed the vendor asking if he'd be willing to provide me a declaration that it's a gift & the value of the items inside. If he's not willing to do this, I'll try to claim it as purchased goods. If they then require documents that I can't provide, I'll have it returned to sender, in which case I'll probably even get a refund. So, at this point I'm not too, too worried about any outcome. But I want to keep track of my experience here in case anyone else runs into these problems in the future.

 

[Zicky]

Vendor says, "US, UK, Canada, found no reason for this."

I assume that means he is unwilling to write the declaration of a gift. So, I'm just going to go down there tomorrow with the reciept and see what happens. I'll let you know.

 

[Zicky]

Got called into work so I emailed the receipt instead of going down there. I feel a little worse about it now just because I can't take it back from them now if I wanted to (just my nerves talking). I sent it at 8:30am & they immediately wrote me back saying they would let me know if they needed any further information - then, nothing.. The customs office was only open from 8:00-15:30 today, and won't be open again until Monday.  The TN says it's still at customs. So, the saga continues. Will update again when I know anything.