I am putting together a "AVOID SCAMS" guidelines post

[sitm1914]

Here's the start -- if there is interest in this, I'll continue adding to it. I haven't actually gotten to the "avoid scaps" chapter but here's what I've put together so far as a rough draft. If anyone likes the style of writing and would like me to continue, just let me know and I'll be happy to make this a major project for these forums.

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AVOIDING SCAMS

Most of us have been there at least once. “Hey, just wanted to ask once more – do you have tracking #?” and then radio silence for 1 hour, 2 hours, 4 hours, etc. The next day we send another email and still nothing. After paying a few hundred for an order with this great new vendor that a few people recommended, there is no package and there is no tracking number. If you have USPS Informed Delivery, nothing pops up there, either.

No matter how much we try to deny it and push the thought out of our heads – WE’VE BEEN HAD. Swindled, Duped, Conned, Taken in – Taken for a ride. There’s a lot of ways to express it but the feeling is equally disgusting no matter how we phrase it. We’ve paid hard earned money for a service via someone who has no intentions of honoring the agreement.

This document is for everyone out there who has been taken for a ride (or wants to avoid taking one for the first time) and wants to make sure they take every possible defensive measure in the future from getting scammed again. I cannot promise you that you will never be scammed after reading this guide. The possibility is always there – even from the most trusted vendors (via exit-scamming). Sometimes the most trusted vendor in the world will see the writing on the wall and then decide getting maximum value from every client as possible is the best way to leave the scene. Some vendors mentally justify this with thoughts like, “I’ve taken countless risks for these people – they owe me a parting gift.”

The first thing you need to understand in this game is that a lot of these interactions and transactions revolve around things that are either illegal or “quasi-legal.” You are not buying cat food from Amazon – there is real risk involved in every transaction (usually 100% on the vendor side unless you are purchasing 1 kilogram of F direct from China – in which case this guide probably isn’t for you). Economic theory demands that any person entering a transaction involving heightened risk needs to be rewarded monterally.

Getting back to avoiding a SCAM – what are some ways we can mitigate risk when searching for a new vendor?

(To be continued if there is interest)

 

[player72]

Good stuff please keep it coming!

 

[WTF7218]

Yes please! Thanks for doing this.

 

[sitm1914]

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll start work on this now and should have some fun / interesting reading material for you all by the Thanksgiving holidays next week (Thursday for those not in the US).

 

[sitm1914]

When you are researching a possible new vendor, it is extremely helpful to have two different email accounts at your disposal. The two accounts should have different names so that they can't be linked together. You don't necessarily have to have two different email providers, but if you do that is even better.

The goal here is to make contact with the new vendor and after getting their listing / menu, you want to ask them for a total and the bitcoin address for sending funds (it doesn't matter if you usually don't pay via Bitcoin -- we just want to get the wallet address from them). You are going to do this twice from both of the email accounts but not at the same time. Stagger them at least several hours a part. Be careful that you don't have any email footers turned on that would give away that these two emails are from the same person.

What we're interested in is the following:

1) Does this vendor provide a different wallet address for each order or for each client or do they use the same wallet address for all orders?

2) What kind of activity can we see from these Bitcoin wallet addresses from blockchain explorer websites that allow you to see activity for specific wallets. An example site for this is https://www.blockchain.com/explorer

After you email them from both accounts, compare the wallet addresses. If they are both different, it may mean that they use a different wallet per order or per client. If the two addresses are different, that is actually a decent signal that they may be on the more legitimate side. Generally a scammer won't be setting up different wallet addresses for each scam (but they could). Part of evaluating a potential new vendor is evaluating multiple things at once and coming up with an overall score.

After checking both email replies, you notice that this vendor has sent the same wallet to both of your emails. At this point, we want to use the blockchain explorer website to see what kind of historical activity we can see. Here's the overall scoring we can apply:

1) You pull up the explorer and notice there is either no activity to these wallets or only a couple transactions. This is a possible red flag and warning that something may be amiss with this vendor. Between no transactions and a couple transactions, the latter may actually be worse as this may indicate a couple people have been scammed already. You want to see how long this wallet has been involved in transactions, etc.

2) The most positive sign would be if you see multiple transactions from one wallet to the vendor's wallet. Generally if a person gets scammed, they aren't going to transact any future business with that vendor. If you see a wallet that has made multiple money sends to the vendor, that is a very strong signal that the vendor may be legitimate. Of course, the vendor could always send transactions from another bitcoin wallet they own, but that's REALLY planning ahead and I doubt most scammers would go to such lengths. Also, you want to see the entire history of transactions and get a feel for what is going on with that vendor.

There is a lot of very interesting analysis that can be done with blockchain explorers and this is just one of many methods you can use to create an overall score for a possible new vendor. Bitcoin wallets can also be used as a proof of identity for vendors.

Assuming the vendor wasn't royally screwed over and lost all of their bitcoin wallets to a hacker, the community could then be reasonably confident that the person is who they claim to be.


(More coming next week)

 

[sitm1914]

Ok -- one more while I'm here.

Psychology
This could be an entire chapter because there is so much you can do with psychology to shake out important information from someone, but I'm going to share a specific tactic that is highly effective right now.

The mindset of an active vendor and a scammer and how they approach comms is very different. A successful vendor doesn't enjoy spending time in email conversing with clients. It isn't that they are rude or disinterested, it is simply because a highly recommended vendor could deal with dozens or even over a hundred clients. Anyone who has been in a business role of interacting with the general public will attest to the fact that some people need a lot of "hand holding" for lack of a better way of putting it. There is also another term in the business world called the Pareto Principle (the 80/20 rule). What this means (or one of the meanings) is that 20% of your clients will require 80% of your resources. It is a fascinating economic principle and I highly recommend everyone reading this to check it out more on Wikipedia. This rule also means that 20% of your client base will account for 80% of your sales, etc.

Anyway, getting back to psychology -- after you get the listing from the possible new vendor, look it over and ask them to give you a price for whatever.

"Hey there, I'd like to put in an order. Can you send the total and BC address?"

At some time in the future, you get back a reply.

Most vendors (especially if you are a NEW client or someone they've never interacted with before) will tell you that their price is the price and they don't do individual deals. On the other hand, a scammer wants your money NOW so they will either say, "Sure, of course -- I understand!" or they will try to negotiate.

What you are trying to do here is exploit the mindset of a scammer because their objectives are vastly different than a reputable vendor. The goal is to make a play knowing that a scammer doesn't give a shit about anything but getting you to send bitcoin, Monero, etc. to their wallet.

Again, you just might find a legit vendor who would work with you but that is exceedingly rare. You could also have a scammer refuse to drop the price (again, exceedingly rare). The point is to use a bunch of different tactics to come to an overall score to better help you figure out who the scammers really are.

(more to come next week)

 

[Atlantaxan]

This is extremely well thought out, well written, and useful. I REALLY appreciate you’d go to the trouble to do this and look forward to the next installment!

 

[timyboy]

This guy is nailing it, wish he would write some more.

 

[PHXINC]

Ummm personally I dont find that info too much usable. From what I've seen their is a bunch of little kids and time wasters on this board. They spen 10 minutes talking transaction lol...They get btc and they roll. Idiotic. We might use one address per day. Multiple. We encourage XMR only. To the people that think they can follow our money: You cant. So while that may be true for the vendor that sticks a btc address on his bin for 6 months, it is not true for all and truly annoying for legit organizations that get many orders a day and have to deal with little crypto tracker wanna bes or "hackers" that download simple programs and press a button. Your not impressive. You do not code. Its idiotic. We have 2 burned devices we sit at alternate locales just for these dummies to play with and they do it all the time. Just receiving what we ant lol...So maybe keep that in mind guys while you do your "research".

Its honestly not that hard to roll through a thread and pick out the vets and the newer that are obviously honest and say hey whats your true experience? If you aint got 20 pages order after order its hard for us.

We took on snowbuds for yall. That was idiotic. But we thought u know something would be done. We are awareof movies being played out. Actors and stages.

Veteran members involved in scams, and 1 particularly actually good "hacker on this board" who is very active. But......enough said there.

I mean you roll a thread and you seas nothing but the vendor spouting off ad after ad, usually asian. It could be 15 pages.

Look for the veterans posting legit reviews. and then look at the newbs experiences. are the vets being treated better for the notoriety, Getting extras. Packs on time? Everyone else untimely?

Do they have product shots? On our menu? You will see dated pics of all items. Thats our middle finger to all drop shippers that pass customers info around and raise up prices because they are not true vendors.

If you dont see product folks dates and names. Dont touch em. If they say they ship from 8-10 locales and they are "team members" Its laughable guys and they are ripping the world off. We see it . we know all the vendors they drop ship from. And they are leeches that steal loyal customers money and info dont forget. And eventually orders don't come through ? and they have no recourse. because they are normally drug addicts using their small time profits to feed their habits. They cant pay to have that reshipped and the real vendor? they know and sometimes they can be assholes about it.

Prefect menus? always in stock? No fail ever? Yeah sure okay. Not the way this games works. Half our menu is out but we got it on the way.

If you see enormous lists with 100 products? RUN!!!!!!!! Hello? These are drop shippers dpubling the market price often times tripling it.

Stop allowing this guys. Why am i saying this? Information. We have 4 memberships open. So we have no room for new clients really. This is the truth. Their are AWESOME vendors on this board. Truly. We have found some gems ourselves. But look at what i posted above , you see it? RUNNNNN!!!!! Find a trustworthy member and omg we should be able to help eachother out as far as this board its all right here in the open. Am i giving away my real PCP, MXE, A pihp, apvp, 2c i, dck, MXP, Etizolam, 3fa, mxipr, 100% non seizure oxy.... sources... Probably not. Any vendor on this board? i know em all and i could care less u looking for something and if I can help and have TIME to get to my DMS. absolutely man. TIME is the issue. Definitely good info above. Not saying its wrong.

Not one single time have i tried to play crypto follower though. and I have 2-3 burns in all my years. On King David, My friend jacked a kilo from me. Dok Arcy last year. That was one. 44

See ya guys hope all is well.

Team PHX

Edit : One more thing guys, you get solicited...be carful. Good vendors never solicit. If your in a situation and something seems way too good to be true. 99% of the time it is. During these times, never give away your real info EVER. We have many drops obviously. But I understand most of yall use your real homes. Just think upon that Okay? No we have had exceptions through the years but we approach these situations with extreme caution. C.Y.A. Always Cover Your Ass. You guys got this.

 

[PHXINC]

Update: and just to prove it. Someone took on the challenge and thought they could prove me wrong. They took over a dumb dumbs computer pretty damn impressively I'll say that. Had files of the exodus wallet and his cold storage ledger, he called said he rolls some exodus coin but the rest in the wallet disappeared ($6.97) or something. I said unmm okay. So do another transfer out of curiosity, this time on the ledger. I had to fucking know. Boom. $700 gone. So, that goes to show they gave me the best of what they had and that's what they could get a dumb asses tiny 2 wallets. Have no idea where our money is else they would been smart and waiting. I'm assuming this coding in these files were programmed to take the whole wallet. But it was easy to find as I went over their around 1 fucking am. The whole god damn device was rolled. Obvious dated 2022 files. That could not be removed without trusted installer, I went to command from as admin and I believe if you type in TAKEOUT /F c:xxxxxxxxxxx and then your file it will allow you to get past the "trusted installer error" and remove. As I dug deeper and deeper the only things that made sense was to burn it, wipe it and wipe it clean as possible and trash it. If the guy using it had any clue what was going on there is no way he would not have notice. I mean holy shit, needless to say he's been relegated to tying his shoes in the morning and seeing if he can run a vacuum sealer all day. I don't think this person is from this site or members are involved that was said for a certain reason. To figure something out, I got one more thing to figure out: something that could be great or not so great. If it's great I keep my full trust in dbg just like always... who have always treated us well. If not so great well I truely don't inderstand the point lol. I'll know in a week. Oh and the burned phone I keep talking . There you go. Proof. And I don't play calling duty: black ops. So message to vendors and customer alike get secure. If it happened to me it will happen again. Someone thought he was good enough.....he found out just how much he could get of our money...,

Keep your wallets minimum folks roll your money asap and flesh it out and disperse it as XMR to your cold wallets. Safe locations. Safe networks. Safe computers. Sucks man. People have too much time.



One last edit

Monero CLI check it out. It's the best.