MDMA replacement RCs and organic chem question

1

1rocketcycle

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Jan 27, 2020
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I've seen some recipes for blends that can sub for MDMA with mixed results and wanted to share my thoughts and see what you more-experienced people would suggest, since I'm new at this. I'm a neuroscientist with some chemistry training, so I'm not totally clueless about the mechanisms involved - I just haven't directly experienced almost everything (2 or 3 MDMA, 1 5-MAPB, 1 5-MAPB/4-AcO-DMT combo) and I know there's a lot of inter-person variation.

So, I'm fine-tuning a blend to attempt to replace MDMA as closely as possible, since I moved to an area where the opioid crisis hit so badly that the authorities are ludicrously vigilant 🤬. I got a pack of good 5-MAPB from Smokey's and 4-aco-DMT from a darknet vendor, so I know things can get through, but two shipments of real MDMA - 1 pill, 1 rock/powder - failed even with reships. I may be able to set up a POB in California (I visit every couple months for work) but it'd be a whole lot easier and less risky to come up with a replacement blend.

After lots of reading at Erowid and Psychonaut Wiki I decided to try a combo of 4-FA, 5-MAPB, and 4-AcO-DiPT. Then finding out that 4FA is long gone, went with 4-FMA. I get the empathogenic warm fuzzies from 5-MAPB (feels very sensory-serotonergic, at least with temp and tactile responses). Haven't tried 4-FMA, but I didn't want too much stimulation from it, more the euphoria/entactogen feel, and it sounded like the 2- and 3-F versions were much more straight-amphetamine-like. Finally, I want the tingly mild psychedelics of 4-AcO-DiPT and (from the user experiences) the increased libido/sexual sensation that seem to go with it. 👩‍❤️‍👨

So, does this sound like a reasonable substitute for MDMA? Any suggestions on ratio, timing, etc.? I know the APB is a little slower in its activity than the others, but with only about a 15 minute difference, I could probably have a good 2-hr or so overlapped peak even if they're all in one cap.

Lastly, for the chemists in the audience - 5-MAPB seems to be about as close structurally to MDMA that you can get, but the missing O that turns dimethoxy- into benzofuran seems to be pretty important in terms of structure-activity relationship. Looking at the structures, size and shape are very similar, so I'm guessing it's an electrostatic interaction that changes the Ki values. What I'm wondering is if you could do a relatively simple Friedel-Crafts acylation or similar reaction with the 5-MAPB, and attack the furan to attach an electron donor (O is a donor, right?), say a keto or carboxyl/hydroxyl group, in the position where the second O would normally be in MDMA?  If it's possible, do you think it'd be as close or closer to MDMA as 5-MAPB in experience? And has it been tried already and I just didn't know? 😉 

 
I personally like 5-APB the most, but I'm also a big fan of 4-FA although I don't think it's as similar to MDMA. I imagine 4-FA mixed with 5-MAPB would be close.

 
borax formula. 5 mapb for roll, 2 fma for amp and 3 ho or 3 aco met for the magic. 3 ho met is great by itself btw. not a roll but a fun trip with no anxiety 

 
I've personally experimented with the Borax Combo.  You can look it up on Reddit.  I really can't tell the difference between this and real mdma to be honest.

 
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