Non-benzo sleep med

[screamingmimi]

Whatever helps people sleep is broken in me Like @Heapsreal commented on another post mine started with the onset of a virus but has always been a problem 

i need a sleep initiator which has to be a benzo, a sleep sustainer and then some antihistamines.  I absolutely will not sleep without a benzo 

lately I can fall asleep but am waking within 2-4 hours. Totally wide awake. And what is baffling is that when I'm wake at 2 am (or whenever) I am wide awake like I never took anything.  But what I take more meds to sleep they do not work at all.  

I can't figure what is going on in my brain where drugs that would knock me out st 10 do nothing at 2 am 

last night when I woke at 1 I said F it and room a boatload. I slept until 11 am.  I couldn't believe it. I'm also wasted which is fine by me 

so what can I take, none benzo, to take a break from benzos.  Nothing, and I mean nothing, else works on its on.  People who sat kava or meditate don't have the epic insomnia I have where my hypthalamu sis damaged 

 

[Jellopanda]

I suppose you've tried hypnotics like Z0lp1dem and Z0pi? Amb1en CR otherwise knows as Z0lpi Tartrate is supposed  to help you stay asleep. Est@zowl@m should also  be helpful when it comes to reducing awakenings during the night.

 

[Smoka90]

Firstly, I'll go through the things I have experience with:

1. Promethazine/Phenergan. For me at least, this was quite powerful. A 50mg dose would have me very, very sleepy indeed (and I used to have bad insomnia at that time, I'd recently quit drinking and couldn't sleep). It is quite an unpleasant sedation, though, and you usually wake up feeling terrible. But it does work. Be aware, though, that first generation antihistamines like this can and do lower the seizure threshold, which may be very relevant if you're having less benzohs.

2. Valerian. I know you can buy it, but the tablets sold are just too weak. I used to buy the ground root powder instead, and just cram it into empty capsules. I'd have, maybe...4-5g of valerian root. I also used to take passion flower (a mild sedative) as well, maybe 3-4g. That combination was quite effective.

Valerian has actually been shown to have activity at one, or maybe both, of the GABA receptors. It's not addictive, but it does have proven pharmacological action there.

What I haven't tried:

1. Melatonin. I have no experience with this, but people do say it can do at least *some* good.

Personally, I'd avoid the z-drugs, since they have exactly the same withdrawal and tolerance as benzohs. Different molecular structure, but same mode of action. The same goes for gabapentin and pregabalin. Some say the withdrawal from the latter two are worse than benzohs. From my experience, stay away from gabapentin and pregabalin. They sort of 'activated' my epilepsy for me. I'm still not sure what happened. But they're awful meds, really are...

I hope this helped at least a bit, just give me a shout if you want to know any more. =)

 

[Nic]

As mentioned above you could try the herbal root Valerian. In powdered form it's quite potent - for me in any case. A small percentage of folk find it too much of a stimulant but if it suits your particular physicochemical make-up it may help. 

 

[screamingmimi]

Thanks for all the responses.  Meds don't work on me like you'd think they should.  Example I can take a combo one night and be knocked out in 10 minutes. A few nights later take the same combo and be up all night.  No matter what I take I always wake between 1-2 and usually again at 3-4.  I don't know why or what's going on.

@Nic   I'm way beyond that, not to mention thinking about it gags me from the stink My sleep center is damaged so herbals don't do much except as an add on with other stuff. I like Passion flower for when I wake in the middle of the night with etiz MD.  

@Nikolas  That's Rohypnol here, also known as the date rape drug.  I think I've seen it, costs too much and scares me a little

@Jellopanda   I use zolp, can't take the taste of the other.   They don't keep me asleep.  

@Smoka90   I think I've tried it and no matter when I take it I'm sedated the entire next day.  Valerian and  melatonin are worthless.  

I'm totally aware of the benzo issue. After not sleep for months because I refused to take a benzo I was a lunatic.   I have not choice.  Was just wondering if there was something new I hadn't heard about.  As I said, this is not "insomnia". My brain is broken.   

 

[Smoka90]

@screamingmimi I'm sorry to hear that valerian and other herbal supplements didn't work for you...I mean, if you've just been trying encapsulated valerian or tea, I would suggest taking loads of it in homemade capsules...

I mean, I didn't suggest this before, but a certain well known green herb may help you sleep? If you have the right strain it might be rather sedating...may be worth a shot.

I really can't think of much else...there is mirtazapine. I've been prescribed that for over three years, and it is incredibly sedating when you start treatment. Honestly, had me out like a light. Yeah, it's technically an antidepressant, but some people do use it as required as a sleep aid. Plenty of people do that. There's also quetiapine. Never been prescribed it personally, but that really does knock people out.

Just want to be able to come up with something helpful...

 

[screamingmimi]

@Smoka90    I live in a state where herbs are legal which I've considered however I have some neuro issues due to an illness (which broke my sleep center hence all the problems) and I worry about what it'll do to me. 

I've been dealing with this for 20 plus years.  I've tried everything you can think of and more.  What I think what people are not understanding is that things that put you out like a light don't for me.  Example seroquel.  Works ok if I add 50 mgs to a bunch of other crap but on it's own nothing.    I know people who take baclofen since it works on Gaba.   Made me feel like i was on speed.

I don't think there's anything knew.  In fact I was just messaging someone on Facebook who asked about Oleamide.  He was desperate to sleep, doc didn't believe him that he got tolerance on ambien (shock).    On paper it says it's great. Seems like it would really work.  The first night I was knocked out and the next morning I felt like I was paralyzed. My brain was awake but I could not move my body.   After that I barely notice it helping.  Same with Baicalin.  Worked maye the first time or two but even with months in between it does nothing.

I got a bunch of stuff from a vendor here.   That'll have to do.

 

[PTFC]

I have to concur with @Smoka90 on the mirtazipine. There is a vendor who stocks it here, safemedpills. I have been prescribed it a few times over the years for the glums. But it sparks me out, heavily at first, then not so heavily. It could be worth a try if you think it won't interfere with your neuro issues. It's an antidepressant in a class of its own. 

 

[Smoka90]

Yep, @PTFC is spot on.

I don't want to come across as aggressive or anything, I always try and avoid that...but @screamingmimi I understand that it is frustrating to suffer insomnia, but it isn't right to ask for advice on non benzoh sleep aids, then to get defensive and reject every piece of advice someone offers. You asked a question, and I really just wanted to help. Only for you to say what works for me won't work for you.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like an arse...like I said, I don't like to be negative, but I put a lot of work into coming up with lots of advice, and I felt like I was shot down and that my experiences were irrelevant to yours. It just, er...hurt a bit.

But, I'll say this again, I really sympathise with your situation. It must be hell, more than I can imagine. But if you ask for help, *please* be open to all suggestions, otherwise asking for help makes little sense.

I guess what I'm saying is, if we've suggested something that you haven't tried already - try it, for your own sake. I mean it when I say I genuinely want to help you, so please let me, and everyone else here, help you...

I hope this didn't offend you or upset you, I didn't intend that... I just want to help, but please be prepared to help yourself too. That's the first step.

Much love to you, I sincerely hope that you find relief in some form. I just had to say this, mostly for your sake and to help you. You know, there's things that will knock you out. I used to binge drink, use 'herb', then take benzohs. But that's very unhelpful, and so bad in the long run. It almost ruined my life...and I don't want you to have to resort to that...

I'll just say it one more time, please don't take any of this the wrong way. Let us help you.

Sorry if I've caused offense...if I crossed the line, @PTFC, please delete this post.

Sorry...had to get this off my chest.

And now I'll be very anxious after posting this, I don't want to get in trouble...I just want to help...it upsets me when I can't.

Most of all...stay safe. Don't get wreckless in your hunt for sleep. Please stay safe.

Much love and *hugs*...

 

[screamingmimi]

@Smoka90    You're right I was an arse.  And I appreciate your time.  My excuse was last week was a nightmare dealing with some horrendous BS and I should not have responded.    

 @PTFC   Not to be a further arse but taken it.  even a quarter pill drugged me out the entire day.  Have a good cheap source for that.  

I should have said from the start that I've taken everything anyone can think of and was looking for some weird thing  one might not think would help for sleep.  I just had some crazy idea that there might be something I had not thought of, like rhino hide or zebra poop.  

oh and I appreciate your concern for me.   I don't have insomnia per se, my hypothalamus is damaged and my sleep center broken due to a neuro immune disease.  I'm very careful.