Stronger form of 0-d$Μτ ?

[Jai239]

I came across this while using the new chat gpt browser to do some research and I want to know if anyone is familiar with this ? Not promoting the site and I haven’t bought any but wanted to share the entire description from the site in hopes that someone can share their knowledge on the matter.


“O-Desmethyl-cis-tramadol (also called O-DSMT Rac, O-Desmethyltramadol R) is an opioid anaigesic, an active metabolite of tramdol, a racemic compound with similar effects.


This substance has a more active effect than its related compound O-Desmethyltramadol(O-DSMT).


O-Desmethyl-cis-tramadol is a metabolite of O-Desmethyltramadol and has a similar chemical structure


This substance is a research drug and its toxicological and pharmacological properties have not been fully studied According to research and tests on mice, this substance can act on the body as a strong analgesic, creates a more sedative effect, causes less stimulation than tramadol and causes euphoria similar to stronger opioids.


O-DSMT Rachas an unclear legal status and can be used as a research tool in specially equipped laboratories.


O-DSMT Rac is a designer opioid drug and its toxicological and pharmacological properties are under investigation and not fully understood. This chemical is intended for rescarch and identification of properties, in special rooms, on special laboratory equipment, in compliance with all safety measures.


You can get acquainted with the prices and buy O-DSMT Rac online right now, at OmniCompound company. We provide all the necessary information about the products and provide a quality guarantee

 

[sporidicus]

I'm very interested but it also sounds like a possible AI hallucination.

 

[sporidicus]

Actually I reread this and you are confused I think. ODSMT is composed of what you said, O-Desmethyl-cis-tramadol in 2 steroisomers, + and - as well as O-Desmethyl-tras-tramadol in + and -. They all work together to make up ODSMT and contribute to it's effects on the various opiate receptors.

 

[sporidicus]

Actually I reread this and you are confused I think. ODSMT is composed of what you said, O-Desmethyl-cis-tramadol in 2 steroisomers, + and - as well as O-Desmethyl-tras-tramadol in + and -. They all work together to make up ODSMT and contribute to it's effects on the various opiate receptors.

Trans*

 

[Halif]

I don't think I'd trust ChatGPT or any LLM to give me accurate info on chems. I guess it could be a good 'jumping off point' (like wikipedia can be) where you hear of something interesting from it and then go on to do your own fact finding.

Also,

O-Desmethyl-cis-tramadol

Trans*

Is there a non-binary version of ODSMT? What does that mean?

 

[LW815]

I don't think I'd trust ChatGPT or any LLM to give me accurate info on chems. I guess it could be a good 'jumping off point' (like wikipedia can be) where you hear of something interesting from it and then go on to do your own fact finding.

Also,




Is there a non-binary version of ODSMT? What does that mean?

but also yes never take anything AI tells you as factual information. They’re known to pull shit out of their virtual asses, including completely fake/non-existent reference material. Which most of the people using stuff like ChatGPT don’t bother checking into, I’d gamble because if they were willing to take the time to read the source information they wouldn’t have a need to read AI-generated summaries

I used to see the isolated R-¡s0m£r advertised in a few places, claimed to be a stronger read than traditional/r@c£m¡c O. Always wanted to subscribe but never found anywhere that made the claim trustworthy enough for my liking. I’m far from educated on the matter but I know many people confuse the letter R as meaning the latter word, when the definition of that word is an equal mix of R and L. I believe R is also sometimes referred to as a different letter. Such as getting a D in m@th, and maybe L can be substituted for S. Could be wrong on that, but I also think it depends on what c0mpound is being discussed as well. I think someone like @ochemdim would be a better candidate to describe or explain, if it’s something he’s willing to discuss on here.

 

[Jai239]

I found it online it’s not something I generated on an ai model I’ll link the site

 

[Jai239]

O-DSMT Rac - OmniCompound is a supplier of new chemical products online

O-Desmethyl-cis-tramadol(also called O-DSMT Rac, O-Desmethyltramadol R) is an opioid analgesic, an active metabolite of tramdol, a racemic compound with similar effects. This substance has a more active effect than its related compound O-Desmethyltramadol(O-DSMT). You can get acquainted with...

omnicompound.com

 

[LW815]

Pretty sure that place is a known scam. Could be wrong though

 

[ochemdim]

I don't think I'd trust ChatGPT or any LLM to give me accurate info on chems. I guess it could be a good 'jumping off point' (like wikipedia can be) where you hear of something interesting from it and then go on to do your own fact finding.

Also,




Is there a non-binary version of ODSMT? What does that mean?

but also yes never take anything AI tells you as factual information. They’re known to pull shit out of their virtual asses, including completely fake/non-existent reference material. Which most of the people using stuff like ChatGPT don’t bother checking into, I’d gamble because if they were willing to take the time to read the source information they wouldn’t have a need to read AI-generated summaries

I used to see the isolated R-¡s0m£r advertised in a few places, claimed to be a stronger read than traditional/r@c£m¡c O. Always wanted to subscribe but never found anywhere that made the claim trustworthy enough for my liking. I’m far from educated on the matter but I know many people confuse the letter R as meaning the latter word, when the definition of that word is an equal mix of R and L. I believe R is also sometimes referred to as a different letter. Such as getting a D in m@th, and maybe L can be substituted for S. Could be wrong on that, but I also think it depends on what c0mpound is being discussed as well. I think someone like @ochemdim would be a better candidate to describe or explain, if it’s something he’s willing to discuss on here.

So these refer to isomers, and chirality, or parts of isomers - same atoms but different layouts
Look at is0propyl alcohol and pr0panol. They have the same number of H, C and O atoms but different structures.
Isomers can be subdivided into more specific groups like structural isomers (like the example I gave) and stereoisomers. Within stereoisomers you have enantiomers, which are mirror images like your hands), and diastereomers (which yeah, does include cis and trans lol).
d/l or sometimes you’ll see (+)/(-). (D/L is a little different): d/(+)= dextrorotatory (dexter - Latin for ‘right’), l/(-) = levorotatory (laevus - Latin for ‘left’). Right or left (clockwise or counterclockwise, respectively) is the direction plane polarized light rotates when looking at the compound in solution using an instrument called a polarimeter. The degree of rotation and direction can determine the ratio of the enantiomers in the solution. No rotation = racemic.
D/L has to do with how it relates to a sugar called glyceraldehyde and is the absolute configuration, which I don’t have the time to explain. Especially for free lol. Sometimes d does = D and l, L but not always. But enantiomers are named with D and L.
R/S deals with individual chiral centers within compounds, which are carbons bonded to 4 different types of atoms. Some compounds have 0 chiral centers, some have 1, some have a bunch. Again I don’t have time to break that down. But with large molecules with multiple chiral centers, R/S would tell you intricate details about the structure.
Cis/Trans is what it sounds like once you see it lol. Cis (Latin for “on the same side”) has both atoms or groups of interest on the same side of a double bond (typically), trans (Latin for “across”) has them on opposite sides. Look up 1,2-dichloroethylene, there’s cis-1,2-dichloroethylene and trans-1,2…
Hope that helps!

 

[ochemdim]

“O-Desmethyl-cis-tramadol (also called O-DSMT Rac, O-Desmethyltramadol R) is an opioid anaigesic, an active metabolite of tramdol, a racemic compound with similar effects.


This substance has a more active effect than its related compound O-Desmethyltramadol(O-DSMT).

O-Desmethyl-cis-tramadol is a metabolite of O-Desmethyltramadol and has a similar chemical structure

This substance is a research drug and its toxicological and pharmacological properties have not been fully studied According to research and tests on mice, this substance can act on the body as a strong analgesic, creates a more sedative effect, causes less stimulation than tramadol and causes euphoria similar to stronger opioids.


O-DSMT Rachas an unclear legal status and can be used as a research tool in specially equipped laboratories.


O-DSMT Rac is a designer opioid drug and its toxicological and pharmacological properties are under investigation and not fully understood. This chemical is intended for rescarch and identification of properties, in special rooms, on special laboratory equipment, in compliance with all safety measures.
get acquainted with the prices and buy O-DSMT Rac

Actually I reread this and you are confused I think. ODSMT is composed of what you said, O-Desmethyl-cis-tramadol in 2 steroisomers, + and - as well as O-Desmethyl-tras-tramadol in + and -. They all work together to make up ODSMT and contribute to its effects on the various opiate receptors.

Yeah what is Rac? Racemic? That’s what someone would typically get.

And the FD@ recommends racemic tr@m to avoid side effects and to get the NRI and p@in stopping effêct$. Also, it looks like a scam.

 

[Jai239]

So these refer to isomers, and chirality, or parts of isomers - same atoms but different layouts
Look at is0propyl alcohol and pr0panol. They have the same number of H, C and O atoms but different structures.
Isomers can be subdivided into more specific groups like structural isomers (like the example I gave) and stereoisomers. Within stereoisomers you have enantiomers, which are mirror images like your hands), and diastereomers (which yeah, does include cis and trans lol).
d/l or sometimes you’ll see (+)/(-). (D/L is a little different): d/(+)= dextrorotatory (dexter - Latin for ‘right’), l/(-) = levorotatory (laevus - Latin for ‘left’). Right or left (clockwise or counterclockwise, respectively) is the direction plane polarized light rotates when looking at the compound in solution using an instrument called a polarimeter. The degree of rotation and direction can determine the ratio of the enantiomers in the solution. No rotation = racemic.
D/L has to do with how it relates to a sugar called glyceraldehyde and is the absolute configuration, which I don’t have the time to explain. Especially for free lol. Sometimes d does = D and l, L but not always. But enantiomers are named with D and L.
R/S deals with individual chiral centers within compounds, which are carbons bonded to 4 different types of atoms. Some compounds have 0 chiral centers, some have 1, some have a bunch. Again I don’t have time to break that down. But with large molecules with multiple chiral centers, R/S would tell you intricate details about the structure.
Cis/Trans is what it sounds like once you see it lol. Cis (Latin for “on the same side”) has both atoms or groups of interest on the same side of a double bond (typically), trans (Latin for “across”) has them on opposite sides. Look up 1,2-dichloroethylene, there’s cis-1,2-dichloroethylene and trans-1,2…
Hope that helps!

So it’s a legitimate compound that differs in effect from racemic o-dsmt? (In the same way that dextroamphetamine differs when it’s in combination with levoamphetamine versus when it’s on its own) I’m not vouching for the site and hope no one got that impression - I personally don’t know anything about it but have strong feelings that tell me it’s a scam website- I don’t have any proof or evidence other than the fact that it has same look/chemicals/ pricing as similar sites which have been confirmed as being scams. I’m just interested in the concept of this form of Θ-dsmτ.

 

[Jai239]

@ochemdim Thanks for your time and effort , simply put Is it something that we can expect to research and if so- does the website’s description match reality of what the r enantiomer of Θ-dsmτ would be like ?

 

[ochemdim]

@ochemdim Thanks for your time and effort , simply put Is it something that we can expect to research and if so- does the website’s description match reality of what the r enantiomer of Θ-dsmτ would be like ?

So yes there are differences between the enantiomers of said compound. The (+) enantiomer is responsible for the an@lges1c effects, and the (-) is responsible for the NRI and serotonin effects and such. So racemic is half the strength of (+)-od$mť alone. But don’t think of racemic as being a separate compound, it’s a mix of enantiomers and the (+) enantiomer makes up a portion (half or so) of it.
However, according to the FD@, some uncomfortable side effects come up when it isn’t racemic. I don’t know what those are or whatnot. Also racemic tr@mad0l has been shown to be more effective than just (+), and the metabolite of it is….. 0d$mt, so with that said, The site isn’t wrong, just misleading. I think Rac means a racemic mix of the (+)-enantiomers with R chiral centers ( there are two chiral centers) so the cis version of (1R, 2R) and the trans version of (1R, 2R).
But like the science nerds said, not having the (-)-enantiomer may weaken the analgesic effect. So it gets even more complicated….

Desmetramadol Has the Safety and Analgesic Profile of Tramadol Without Its Metabolic Liabilities: Consecutive Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-and Active Comparator-Controlled Trials - PMC

Desmetramadol is an investigational analgesic consisting of (+) and (−) enantiomers of the tramadol metabolite O-desmethyltramadol (M1). Tramadol is racemic and exerts analgesia by monoaminergic effects of (−)-tramadol and (−)-M1, and by the opioid ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I wouldn’t order from them, they look pretty sketch but I’ve been wrong before. So tldr: idk haha

 

[LW815]

So these refer to isomers, and chirality, or parts of isomers - same atoms but different layouts
Look at is0propyl alcohol and pr0panol. They have the same number of H, C and O atoms but different structures.
Isomers can be subdivided into more specific groups like structural isomers (like the example I gave) and stereoisomers. Within stereoisomers you have enantiomers, which are mirror images like your hands), and diastereomers (which yeah, does include cis and trans lol).
d/l or sometimes you’ll see (+)/(-). (D/L is a little different): d/(+)= dextrorotatory (dexter - Latin for ‘right’), l/(-) = levorotatory (laevus - Latin for ‘left’). Right or left (clockwise or counterclockwise, respectively) is the direction plane polarized light rotates when looking at the compound in solution using an instrument called a polarimeter. The degree of rotation and direction can determine the ratio of the enantiomers in the solution. No rotation = racemic.
D/L has to do with how it relates to a sugar called glyceraldehyde and is the absolute configuration, which I don’t have the time to explain. Especially for free lol. Sometimes d does = D and l, L but not always. But enantiomers are named with D and L.
R/S deals with individual chiral centers within compounds, which are carbons bonded to 4 different types of atoms. Some compounds have 0 chiral centers, some have 1, some have a bunch. Again I don’t have time to break that down. But with large molecules with multiple chiral centers, R/S would tell you intricate details about the structure.
Cis/Trans is what it sounds like once you see it lol. Cis (Latin for “on the same side”) has both atoms or groups of interest on the same side of a double bond (typically), trans (Latin for “across”) has them on opposite sides. Look up 1,2-dichloroethylene, there’s cis-1,2-dichloroethylene and trans-1,2…
Hope that helps!

I knew tagging you would be helpful lol. Definitely helped me understand a bit more, but would you say my comment for the most part was at least in the ballpark of good/correct info? Although based on your comment it sounds like I got D and R reversed in their roles/use as identifiers or whatever it may be called.

Since high school stuff like this has always interested me and something I’ve wanted to learn about and possibly even seek higher education for - not for any ill-intended purposes either, just being wired the way I am and my lifelong history of heavy reading has always made me want to learn everything going on behind the scenes of different things and basically just learn all I can from all aspects. Which I’m great at finding credible info and (mostly) understanding at least a majority of things - my problem lies in retaining that information. My memory is completely shot, and while it can be hit or miss on whether I remember something or not it’s usually something stupid like a random phone number that I’d need to use once and never call again. Shit like that will stay with me forever but shit I want to learn never seems to stick, and what does I usually end up messing up some details to the point I usually can’t give any true useful information with confidence without s disclaimer that I could be completely wrong. And then usually point in the direction of somebody who I know/think would be educated enough to actually provide factual info. Which in this case turned out to be you, apologies for throwing you under the bus here haha but I’m sure if you didn’t want to respond to it you wouldn’t have. I appreciate the fact you did in such a detailed and educative manner as well my man

 

[ochemdim]

I knew tagging you would be helpful lol. Definitely helped me understand a bit more, but would you say my comment for the most part was at least in the ballpark of good/correct info? Although based on your comment it sounds like I got D and R reversed in their roles/use as identifiers or whatever it may be called.

Since high school stuff like this has always interested me and something I’ve wanted to learn about and possibly even seek higher education for - not for any ill-intended purposes either, just being wired the way I am and my lifelong history of heavy reading has always made me want to learn everything going on behind the scenes of different things and basically just learn all I can from all aspects. Which I’m great at finding credible info and (mostly) understanding at least a majority of things - my problem lies in retaining that information. My memory is completely shot, and while it can be hit or miss on whether I remember something or not it’s usually something stupid like a random phone number that I’d need to use once and never call again. Shit like that will stay with me forever but shit I want to learn never seems to stick, and what does I usually end up messing up some details to the point I usually can’t give any true useful information with confidence without s disclaimer that I could be completely wrong. And then usually point in the direction of somebody who I know/think would be educated enough to actually provide factual info. Which in this case turned out to be you, apologies for throwing you under the bus here haha but I’m sure if you didn’t want to respond to it you wouldn’t have. I appreciate the fact you did in such a detailed and educative manner as well my man

No need to apologize haha, I enjoy ch3m obviously, and especially theoretical ch3m.
You were definitely in the right ballpark which is impressive for someone with a ‘“shot memory” (I think you’re selling yourself short).
So +/- is just the modern convention for d/l. I suppose because d/l is confusing with D/L.
+/- (or d/l) just describes the polarization of light and optical rotation of a molecule in solution.
R/S has to do with the configuration of atoms or groups of atoms at a chiral center within a molecule, and D/L is the configuration of the whole molecule. But D/L is typically just used for sugars and amino acids so you shouldn’t see them often.
(+)-m@th and (-)-m@th are the “correct” spellings for d-m@th and l-m@th, respectively. Why D and L are still used is because the D/L system was used for everything in the past and it stuck around for this I guess.
Luckily m@th only has one chiral center, so two possible enantiomers. Sue dough fëd has two, one of which is removed, and the remaining is already in the S- configuration (quite convenient) for (+) or d-m@th which is also in the S configuration (l-m@th is in the R configuration).
Hope that wasn’t too much!