Tolerance

[Chettaisbetta]

Hey folks I need a little help.  I am up to 7- blue Roxanne 30's at a time twice a day.  It's out of hand!  I just read a thread on a potentiator concoction.  I will give this a shot next time I have a chance to gather the supplies.  Now there are some things I'm not interested in mixing but. I do think I will give the  Tagamet, white grapefruit juice, quinine, tums a chance.  Anyway, other than slowing down or even taking a complete break for awhile (which I have done) what other options are there to help lower my tolerance.  Obviously I've been taking pk's for awhile so with my back pain it's hard to take breaks.  Even with breaks it doesn't help a lot.  So any concoctions to help with tolerance?  Any ideas on alternates that won't put me in withdrawal but will help with pain and not continue he to raise my tolerance?  I know there is a Kratom thread but has anyone had experience with this and does it help with withdrawal?  Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.  Thank!!!!!!

 

[Twinkiefry:-D]

There are many different potentiators people use, and different ones work for different pple. I read about Immodium somewhere, and tried it. At first I was afraid, since opi@tes cause constipation; so adding immodium would be a double whammy....but--it really worked for me.    As far as lowering tolerance: slower and over time is better! I'd cut back around 10% every week to ten days. So if you're taking 210 mg daily (7 tabs), you could start taking 6.5 tabs a day. Do that for at least a week, to give your body time to adjust. If you respond well to that, reduce to 6 tabs daily, and do that for around 10 days--you get the point. The idea is to taper in small amounts over time, and you shouldn't be able to even notice.

I think I read that incorrectly; I thought it was 7 x 30mgs a day, but after I read again: 7x30mgs twice a day? That's 420 mgs daily. I would still cut back around 10% a week to 10 days. So instead of taking 14tabs daily, take 12.5 for a week, and then cut back another 10%, etc.

 

[Bugbear]

wow @Chettaisbetta, you are really in a different league than i at 420 a day.  

i like Twinkie's advice here.  and you could use kr@tom at the same time (takes 30-60 minutes for full absorbsion), because they share the same receptors.  it could make a dent, and allow you to back down on the r0x1es bit by bit.

if you are looking for getting max absorption of your samples, i have a few safer recommendations.  first, sl@mming or ra1ling the product is something i wouldn't venture in to, even though absorption might be high.  butt, you could look into plugging.  pun intended.  i've not been there, but understand its very effective for absorption.

if you want some extra punch on the front end (fast time frame), which could allow you to reduce your sample size, here are some suggests.  wall of text inc...

- eating habbit.  empty stomach.  it takes about 4 hours to get almost all things (including meat) out of the stomach.  make sure this happens.  and do not eat a meal for 1 hour afterwards.

- powder the samples (or 1/4 to 1/2 to start with, just to get a feel for it).  ultimately you want the time releasing properties of the regular capsule as well, so i wouldn't go 100%.  either crunch them up (i'll get in to this in a bit), or use a mortar / pestle.  much faster absorption.

- delivery system 1.  carbonation.  and the reason why mixed drinks hit you faster than straight alcohol.  with a powder portion in your mouth, drink a swig of Coke, and mix the solution in your mouth before swallowing.  after you are done getting the sample down, drink at least 1/4 of the Coke or more.  the phosphates will improve absorption.

- delivery system 2.  sugars.  pure sugar is rapidly digested by your system.  with a sample of powder, chew up some chocolates / honey / dissolved sugar water, etc and swallow them all together.  don't eat too much.  but it is a rapid delivery system.   i like honey or sugar water myself.  the sample must be integrated with it.

- solution.  your best changes for absorption by the body will be if your sample is not on it's own, but rather, in a solution.  mixed in with carbonated sugar drink.  integrated with high sugar content.  and not on its own.  in a solution.  

- potentates.  yes, real lemon, grapefruits, and lime juices.  they can also help for some folks.  i don't usually need it.

warning, you are going to very likely get a front end delivery (absorption) which exceeds your normal daily routine right now.  it will be obvious within 10-20 minutes.  take it slow.  you don't want to make yourself sick.  that is no fun.

i am no expert but hopefully one of the above ideas works for you, as it has for me.

 

[skinny2x]

My experience tells me that abstinence from the substance is the only way to lower tolerance.  That's easier said than done.  It's even more difficult when one has a legitimate need for the meds to begin with.

Moderation is not something I do well with.  I have back issues as well and it's a quandary.  

The issue for my random acquaintence is that, even if he finds ways to get better absorption, he becomes tolerant to that blood level as well and he's back to square one.  Trying to figure out how to lower his tolerance. 

 

[2earls]

I do frequent tapers. Although I never get all the way to zero, it helps reset my tolerance to a more manageable level. Even though I am continuously going up or down, it's still better than up and up.

I really can't function without some level of pain meds for medical reasons, but I don't like to be taking twice as much as is legitimately needed.  I think Twinkle gave you a good idea. Just start cutting back a bit at a time, whatever you can tolerate and if you keep up a weekly drop, before you know it, you'll find yourself 60mg less. However far you make it is a step in the right direction.

 

[Twinkiefry:-D]

I agree; it would be very hard to just abstain. I taper as well, when I find myself taking too much. But even a steep taper would be easier than just an abstinence/drop off.

 

[DBDBMIA]

I do the taper down method as well. I also try to make a conscious effort to take note of my pain level before taking meds (have an app for that?) and write it down/keep track of it when I take it. On days were I'm in a lot of pain, yes I take more especially if I have a lot to get accomplished, however on days were my pain level is lower and I don't have anything planned but lounging around I try to take less. It makes me more accountable than just popping them like m&m's, which it is really easy to get to that point when you have a bunch on hand (until that supply starts to get low and panic/survival mode kicks in!!)

 

[Chettaisbetta]

All really good suggestions and I did a pretty drastic taper which worked. Kinda.  I completely took one of those 220mg doses out and just took one a day for a couple weeks.  I got a little sick after a few days but more a less was just super lethargic and drained.  Started pooping again properly which was a major plus.  Thanks all for the support no to just get off this hella shitty stuff for good.  Would be delitfull!!

 

[purcell]

I've tried potentiators like tagamet, tums, grapefruits. Not sure if they are placebo or if they actually work. DXM has works so far for me, which is supposed to prevent tolerance from building up in the first place. Also ketamine is supposed to work the same way. I drink a tbsp of cough syrup 45 min before. The problem is your tolerance of DXM goes up as well :wacko:

Very sad I've been tapering from blues down to 1/4 pill a day and I'm still unable to enjoy a batch of codeine 60s I just ordered.

This article describes a doctor resetting the opiate receptors of 3 chronic pain patients: http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jpm.2006.9.1250

She used between 0.6-1 mg IV naloxone [narcan]. The patients were sedated to avoid withdrawal. The treatment was a success and only an hour later they were able to drastically reduce their pain med dosages

Gonna get my hands on some narcan tommorrow at the clinic, will see how it goes

 

[bud]

Know not what you're looking for, but wanted to share my experience in case.

Went from over 350 millipedes of oxiclean daily, took a vacation for about 5 weeks and tolerance down to less than 10% of that 30/day.  Wasn't easy, but the results well worth it for me.

 

[Conceited]

I've tried potentiators like tagamet, tums, grapefruits. Not sure if they are placebo or if they actually work. DXM has works so far for me, which is supposed to prevent tolerance from building up in the first place. Also ketamine is supposed to work the same way. I drink a tbsp of cough syrup 45 min before. The problem is your tolerance of DXM goes up as well :wacko:

Very sad I've been tapering from blues down to 1/4 pill a day and I'm still unable to enjoy a batch of codeine 60s I just ordered.

This article describes a doctor resetting the opiate receptors of 3 chronic pain patients: http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jpm.2006.9.1250

She used between 0.6-1 mg IV naloxone [narcan]. The patients were sedated to avoid withdrawal. The treatment was a success and only an hour later they were able to drastically reduce their pain med dosages

Gonna get my hands on some narcan tommorrow at the clinic, will see how it goes

I think I might be getting the wrong idea.  Are you suggesting  using ket to help with wd. Like taking enough to put you in a k-Hole, so you don't have to feel the full effects of wd?  

 

[purcell]

@Conceited

Hmm that's a very interesting idea, because people have used psychedelics to kick.

But I was talking about taking dxm or K to prevent tolerance from building up in the first place.

For WDs while tapering tho I recommend taking kratom. Bali is the best strain for this. Valium and wet wipes help too ^_^

Experiment report: so I IV'd .8 ml of Narcan based on the study. I had been clean for two days, no major side effects

2 hours later I tried my usual dose of roxy and it hit me twice as hard. So I guess it lowered my tolerance by half. Later that night I tried 120mg code and a 15/500 paracetamol and it was wonderful. Compare to taking 240mg code a week before and feeling nothing at all. YMMV.

I miss the good ol days when one vicodin would do me in. The search continues for complete tolerance reversal!

 

[Conceited]

Using  ket to prevent tolerance build up. Never heard of that before. Is that just a myth?

 

[purcell]

Haven't got my hands on K but I can say DXM definitely works. They are both NMDA antagonists which block tolerance and dependence of opiates while enhancing analgesic effects at the same time. There's an erowid account of a junkie kicking with ibogaine- which is also an NMDA antagonist. She went cold turkey afterwards and had no cravings. https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=86136

 

[myalias]

Necromancing this here thread.

In the posts above purcell talks about using narcan to clear out your receptors. In the same vein, I am going to give low dose n@ltrexone and pr0glumide a go.  These along with mem@ntine, and potentiators and opi0d best use practices.

My goal is to record daily my use and rate my pain levels and general mood.  I think I will make a thread here to chronical these experiments. Is there any interest in reading this? It will probably be a lot of work but it will keep me responsible to not let my dose grow, potentially save me a lot of money, and provide some insight to others.

 

[Gracie5]

I’m very interested in LDN. I would love to read your experiences. I’m not familiar with the other, but am happy to learn more! Thanks for offering to do this.

 

[myalias]

Absolutely, happy to have some interest in my plans.  I can send you some links in pm  with info on a bunch of stuff and where I am getting them

 

[myalias]

@Gracie5

do you think i should start a new thread to act solely as my journal plans? It wont being until i get the rest of my meds soon

 

[Painful heart]

Me too I would like to know where to get LDN.