VENDORS PLEASE READ: Buyers with Malicious Intent

[CalFresh]

Greetings DGB Community,

First and foremost, as a vendor on this site, I would like to thank DGB and it's admins for the spectacular job they have done providing a place where we can discover new buyers and they can confidently connect with us due to the reputations that we build here.

Having recently dealt with a situation with a dishonest buyer whose intent is still not clear but was either to receive free product through coercion or to undermine my reputation with bad PR, I would like to know what we as vendors or as a community as a whole can do to discourage this type of activity. In all honesty I do not believe the user that this fraudulent order attempt came from was at fault. I believe his account may have been compromised along with his protonmail account and used for this purpose by a malicious third party. Regardless, this raises both security and business concerns.

I do not want to suggest anything or take any action that would violate the DGB terms of service, cause any kind of uproar in the buyer or vendor community, or affect the flow of business and communication on or off this site. What I would like to do is find if other vendors are dealing with similar problems, if this is a historic issue or something new, if it's getting worse, and discuss any ways to limit or discourage this type of activity. I saw another vendor's page recently where an unsatisfied customer attempted to defame the vendor on a scale much greater than deserved whether or not the user's order was problematic.

If people feel I'm overreacting or that this is not something we need to be so concerned about, I can hear that. But if other vendors have been experiencing an increase in problems such as this, let's discuss ways to minimize the impact, too identify problems quickly before they get out of hand, and keep the administrators of this site in the loop so we can get their assistance and feedback in short order when problems arise.

Thoughts?

 

[robert1975]

I would like to ask on this thread what you or others suggest for the opposite as well for subscribers.

You do realize there are bad players on both ends here, right? I have read your thread, and I am not certain what that whole situation is however I have had a situation occur and felt it necessary to do all I can possibly do to make other subscribers aware, so they don't lose their $$$.

There are those subscribers that work hard for their money, and most subscribers don't have money to lose. Not to mention those on limited incomes that are just looking for a reliable publisher because d0ct0rs are so scared these days we have to turn to you guys.

Some people such as myself, all we want is a good, honest, reliable publishers, and some publishers get on here and advertise all these promises and quality, then once coin is sent, either radio silence, a problem arises that cannot be settled through email or DM and/or ultimately, they end up losing their $$$.

I understand your concerns and they are certainly valid and not to be discounted at all, after all, if it weren't for some of you guys and DBG, those in need would just be SOL left to suffer.

I am just curious if it has occurred to you that this goes both ways.

 

[knofflebon]

@CalFresh It sucks that this happens but I don’t know of any way to avoid it. Here’s one idea while I have an idle moment. It’s not perfect so feel free to pick it apart.

Maybe a dispute resolution subforum?

Publisher or subscriber raises a dispute that is only visible to them and mods in a dispute subforum. All that can be posted in the review thread is that a dispute has been raised. No further info about the specific dispute is allowed in the review thread while this is going on.

Con: This is extra work for the mods though and doesn’t guarantee a clear resolution every time.

Pro: This keeps noise and personal info (screencaps etc) out of the publicly visible threads. Libraries don’t have to worry about protecting their reps in realtime while subscribers can be assured that admin and mods have their attention.

 

[knofflebon]

There will always be a challenge in striking a balance between risk to individual libraries and readers against risk to the community in its entirety. Adding more substantive safety rails will inherently put the community itself at more risk. Removing safety rails makes libraries and members more vulnerable to bad actors.

It’s easier for scammers to do their thing on a discussion forum, which is frustrating, but the more businesslike it becomes the more scrutiny it will bring to the community as a whole. A network of community libraries may have to deal with the occasional asshole member, but a network of businesses would have to deal with a lot more moderation, regulation, unwelcome attention, and oversight by “better business” bureaus.

This is not to say that you are advocating for one or the other cal, just my take on how difficult it can be to find a clear solution. I feel like the occasional asshole is better than the bbb but that doesn’t mean there’s no need to keep thinking and improving things.

To the honorable librarians of the community, I’d say if you’re established it’s not always necessary to go tooth and nail with every naysayer. Give yourselves a break and give some credit to the oceans of happy library members in review threads. I can understand opening a new branch and wanting to address everything and everyone in order to gain the trust of the community, but if you have good history that will speak for itself over time.

 

[CalFresh]

@robert1975 I think the main purpose of this entire site and it's structure are meant to support exactly what you are referring to. Vendors need to pay a premium for the ability to advertise here and each one gets their own page to collect reviews and build a reputation. The situation I am pointing out is unique to vendors because users are the ones taking the upfront risk by paying for subscriptions before they receive them. It's hard for a vendor to claim fraud under those circumstances. But any user who raises a red flag can trigger very negative consequences for a vendor due to the prevalence of vendors collecting money for a whole bunch of orders and then shutting down shop and not sending them.

I looked into your incident only briefly and if you got scammed by a reputable vendor for some reason, you did all you could to raise awareness. If every other customer or the great majority of them are satisfied with their service from the vendor, I think the assumption would be that there was some personal issue at play, or perhaps the vendor made a mistake or some other random problem occurred which the vendor dealt with badly or at least not to your satisfaction. That does not negate everyone else's experience. You said your piece and it will remain there in black and white as proof something happened and if anything else does with someone else those negative experiences will compile.

There are myriad additional features DGB could add to enhance the current experience (star ratings, premium vendor designations, etc.) but I have no doubt the admins are aware of that and don't implement them for
good reason.

 

[SouthernRX]

Greetings DGB Community,

First and foremost, as a vendor on this site, I would like to thank DGB and it's admins for the spectacular job they have done providing a place where we can discover new buyers and they can confidently connect with us due to the reputations that we build here.

Having recently dealt with a situation with a dishonest buyer whose intent is still not clear but was either to receive free product through coercion or to undermine my reputation with bad PR, I would like to know what we as vendors or as a community as a whole can do to discourage this type of activity. In all honesty I do not believe the user that this fraudulent order attempt came from was at fault. I believe his account may have been compromised along with his protonmail account and used for this purpose by a malicious third party. Regardless, this raises both security and business concerns.

I do not want to suggest anything or take any action that would violate the DGB terms of service, cause any kind of uproar in the buyer or vendor community, or affect the flow of business and communication on or off this site. What I would like to do is find if other vendors are dealing with similar problems, if this is a historic issue or something new, if it's getting worse, and discuss any ways to limit or discourage this type of activity. I saw another vendor's page recently where an unsatisfied customer attempted to defame the vendor on a scale much greater than deserved whether or not the user's order was problematic.

If people feel I'm overreacting or that this is not something we need to be so concerned about, I can hear that. But if other vendors have been experiencing an increase in problems such as this, let's discuss ways to minimize the impact, too identify problems quickly before they get out of hand, and keep the administrators of this site in the loop so we can get their assistance and feedback in short order when problems arise.

Thoughts?

It is what it is… I took as a loss and created an email
With totally different service. I would honestly like to rebuild our relationship and place more orders. After reading more about proton.. I think I was hacked. Anyway, is there a way I can contact you? Using the same email?

 

[SouthernRX]

It is what it is… I took as a loss and created an email
With totally different service. I would honestly like to rebuild our relationship and place more orders. After reading more about proton.. I think I was hacked. Anyway, is there a way I can contact you? Using the same email?

Are you using the same email is what I meant to say?? Thanks