Alcohol

[jimfriedrice]

Best of luck @jimfriedrice. I'll be routing for you! @Biteme gave some great advice. Especially about AA and finding a group that's a good fit for you. Don't let the religious aspect bother you, it only matters that it's an effective program that will work, if you work it.

yeah, I got a ton of AA options in the northern Boston area.  Will be exploring it and keeping up with the updates.

 

[VII]

@jimfriedrice It sounds like you're a fantastic father and you have a lot of potential if you'd like to recover from this. 

My father before he passed away was a very heavy drinker aswell, not only did it effect me and my sibling as a kids but it really took a toll on his body. He was never abusive towards us, he just always acted strange which was uncomfortable at times but never would he act out on us. Once he was diagnosed with stomach cancer he quit CT and he became very ill because of both things. It killed me inside to see him go through so much at once as an adult, I can only imagine what alcohol withdrawal is like but I have seen a family member that I loved dearly suffer from withdrawal from alcohol and I would never want that to happen to anyone in my wildest dreams.

Here's a piece of advice, Valium works better than Xanax according to clinical studies to treat alcohol withdrawal syndrome. It's one of the top marketed drugs aswell for people recovering from an alcohol disorder. I am not a healthcare professional, however all the real statistics are on the web written by professionals. Perhaps talk to your doctor about using Valium as a tapering substance to assist you through these withdrawals. I'm not sure if every benzo has this effect, perhaps Xan does work I'm not sure but just providing you with information I've found out throughout the years.

Just whatever you do, please don't stop CT. It's very dangerous and I'd hate to see a kind and caring individual like yourself or anyone for that matter go through hell and back because of it. Moderation is the key, only stop when you're mind is set and ready to stop. I'm not sure if you've already stopped or not but it seems you're in the recovery process and you did mention taking Xan to cool off the withdrawals.

If you find yourself more stressed, a change in skin color (more pale), feeling of aggression, or any negative symptoms that you reflect back on that could be serious please see your healthcare professional. Even though I'm not a drinker myself, I will stand by your side on the road to your recovery. I know how hard it is recovering from a very high dose of substances, benzos in my case and I'll be honest it's a living hell but once the worst part is over you'll notice a big difference-- you see the light at the end of the tunnel showing there's actual hope. I guess there was no reason to sugar coat that seeing you've already experienced it first hand but the withdrawal effects never last forever. You just need to be put on a better tapering substance to help you get through this safely. 

The two I can recommend is Valium for reduced withdrawal effects (benzos will never stop the withdrawals, but they do make them easier to deal with) and Nitrazepam if you're shaking, having muscle spasms, and having issues with sleep due to withdrawals. Once again, I am not a healthcare professional and before you go on any medication be sure to contact your healthcare professional to see if the substance(s) are right for you. Never self-medicate, avoid that as much as you can.

Xan however works best to treat panic at it's source for panic attacks for the most part. From first hand experience and second hand experience from what I've heard from others once they start having a panic attack Xan seems to "kill" it at the source so to speak which is ideal to keep on hand for those serious panic episodes. 

I'm writing this based on your first post, if I missed out on something please forgive me. I'm not familiar with your medical history so I'm not sure if any of the information provided above would help at all, plus it's best to see a healthcare professional about these even if it's just for advice. Having people with first hand experience like most on this thread can be very helpful but most of these medications may not be suitable for everybody. 

I wish you the best of luck, stay in touch.

Warm regards,

-VII

 

[Biteme]

 Speaking of which, AA was OK, and I didn't mind the God stuff even though I'm atheist at best.  It's just the evangelical nature of the organization.  Not in a God way, just in their attitude that "this is your only path towards salvation".  I'm gonna give it another try but still, that shit kids pisses me off, so we'll see.  

I found a good group on a college campus where I was taking some classes. Much less evangelical & not necessarily in a religious way. I understand what you mean about the attitude, but my own feeling was try it their way and see & it helped. I did the same thing with praying, even though, I am an agnostic at best. I had a lot of social anxiety back then & I needed some kind of social arena to realize I could engage with people without a drink.

 

[jimfriedrice]

I found a good group on a college campus where I was taking some classes. Much less evangelical & not necessarily in a religious way. I understand what you mean about the attitude, but my own feeling was try it their way and see & it helped. I did the same thing with praying, even though, I am an agnostic at best. I had a lot of social anxiety back then & I needed some kind of social arena to realize I could engage with people without a drink.

Hmm, social anxiety up the ying yang here too.  I I think I need to find something similar to your college group, and I'm glad you found something that worked for you.  SMART seems fairly prominent in my area (but I mean 10% of AAs presence), I'll look more into them.  Thanks for the advice.

 

[jimfriedrice]

@VII, please don't ask me to forgive you about anything.  You are so very generous with your thoughts, and I thank you for that.  I've done CT after quitting, and getting back into it for a few weeks and it wasn't so bad.  I started back up again in January so I went to my doc for help, because sometimes I do know from the way my body is withdrawing during work (when I don't drink) that I realize I need help, and I get it.  I have 48 Oxazpms 15 mgs eacj in hand and plan to make Thursday my last drinking day, and start taking these bad boys.  Repsonsibly of course .  My Intensive Outpatient Treatment program starts Monday night with a piss test so Thursday night MUST be my last drink before that.  They give you two strikes and I don't want one on day one!  Sorry if I'm repeating myself.

I bought the xan recently as an insurance policy in case my doc was like "third time you need my help detoxing, GFY".  Ridiculous, sure but I like to have contingencies in place.  I got enough xan that I could use it during the day, in moderation, to control the anxiety and the shakes until my program starts (next monday holy shit!)  I tried Val but the guy who gave them to me said 1mg is enough, 2mg is too much don't take more than that.  Subsequent research told me that was BS.  But by that point I had wasted the 12 or so Vs he gave me taking baby doses, so they didn't do anything for me.  Don't think they'd help me detox.  Either way, my PCP will not prescribe me a benzo, except for the purpose of a Detox, which again is Oxazpms.  This particular one makes detox smooth as a baby's bottom for me.  Physically amdn mentally.  He also suggested a psych consult, who might have a different opinion on giving me a regular, moderate benzo scrip.  The Xan reduces the anxiety so much, work is such a pleasure lately.  Terrible hangovers turn into pretty terrific productive days lately.  We'll see, I'm a different dude when I'm not drinking so... after the program is over maybe I''ll try another xan and see how it works?  

Thank you all again.  Sorry for the delays I can only read this forum at home, wihch means after 6pm ET.  Mornings are just a mess with the kids..  I'm an IT guy and very familiar with how firewalls track traffic among 10000 different things and.... I'm just not taking that chance.  Actually, there's an alternate unmonitored wifi network  (I helped build it so I know it's unmonitored.  Unless the guy who built it with me is spying on me, but he'd understand) but I use that for less instensive stuff than these types of discussions.  Like looking for a new GF on CL or something.

Now that I think of it that's probably a pretty common practice for a lot of you.  Ok, off to other subforums.

 

[VII]

@jimfriedrice It's just in my nature to be apologetic towards things I may need to be apologetic about so I apologize for being apologetic towards specific things.

Well it seems you've been through what I could only imagine going through with the experience you have to share. I'm glad you came to realization that you needed help, most people with addiction issues don't realize that until it's either too late or they don't think it's time to get help. I applaud you for making such a huge step in your life for the better good. Don't be sorry for repeating yourself sometimes, I do the same thing and it's generally used incase a user gets lost in the paragraph(s) which can be helpful to some.

Yeah, doctors can be like that so you made a good choice. Having a small stash for such things seeing you're not abusing the substance can never be a bad thing, just use when needed. Indeed, 1-2mg of val are extreme baby doses. I'm tapering with 10mg and it helps. I won't sit here and preach about which medications could be better but if you found the right one for you then that's absolutely fantastic seeing it will help you significantly through the detox process. I'd suggest seeing Xan is a strong substance to take 0.5mg to start seeing if you don't have a tolerance to the substances 0.5 will do it for the majority of people. Sometimes you have to bump it up to 1mg though for the harsher moments but I wouldn't personally exceed 1mg due to building up a fast tolerance to it.

That's the problem with xan, you can get hooked on it so easily without you even knowing it. The issue is if you're having consistent anxiety issues you may need to look into something that's longer lasting where the peak stabilizes for a good 4-6 hours before dropping unlike xan which has a high peak and a high downfall. I could draw you a graph to show how the medications work on their peak if you don't already know. I had a doctor do this for me once and I was surprised how they worked. I still remember all the information the doctor told me along with the graph drawings.

Finding a doctor to scribe such things even for an anxiety disorder which it sounds like you may be experiencing one is hard to find. I'd suggest seeing a psychiatrist seeing those are the ones that will scribe you what you need to treat such matters. I've never had a doctor directly prescribe me such a thing for my disorders, only refilling what a psychiatrist has already put me on. Even then there's the a-hole doctors that refuse to fill the scripts when a psychiatrist prescribed you the meds for a reason, they shouldn't need another explanation! Arg, I need to stop ranting.

Alcohol masks who you really are for the most part, a lot of people experience that and find the part of them on alcohol helps with some of the issues they're having or try to mask up and become a different person due to past experiences. I'm not a drinker myself but I know a lot of people that are that have told me the same exact story, I can understand where you're coming from. I'd say save the xan for when you need it, make sure you have enough to get through detox aswell-- so having a little more than you need on hand doesn't hurt for after the detox process for those times you need it for anxiety.

I'm an IT guy myself, we have a lot in common. Feels like I already know you for some reason, maybe I do and I don't even realize it. Just the description matches somebody I knew awhile back, that's all. Really strange...but I'm sure this is just a coincidence seeing there's billions of people in this world.

Take it easy and keep us updated if you can! We're right here beside you along the way.

Regards,

-VII

 

[jimfriedrice]

@VIIHmm. maybe my xan usage wasn't so moderate.  I see what you're saying about the peak, or what I believe is referred to as half-life der, I meant "time to peak level" in this chart.  

another edit:  Actually now that I look at it again, both columns combine to paint an interesting contrast between all the drugs.  Just to compare the two, xan will peak quicker and stay in your system longer than ox, which will peak slower and stay in your system for a lesser amount of time.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2172250-overview

correct me if I'm wrong.  Before I found this forum my work day priority was simply, get there on time and try not to talk to anyone unless I absolutely have to. Then I found an SY vendor to help. But anyway, for the last couple of weeks I'd take 1mg of xan in the morn, then another 1mg later in the day.  Work days dealing with withdrawals = piece of cake.  The only time this was scary was the last couple of days driving on the highway on the way home from work.  That shit has been hypnotic, and I was a little unsteady on the road.  I'm done with it for at least a month or else I fail my IOP, so I'll be more careful in the future with what I have left.  I used a CC w/MG to buy from an SY vendor and I'm kinda terrified to try again, even though I got some good product in the end.  Cash is non-existent.  Unless I hit on the scratch tickets I plan to buy later!  (yeah, I'm a moron).  So I hope to never go that route again.

I certainly started drinking in my teens to help with my anxiety.  I bet for the people your talking about the issue is the same.  Anxiety, depression, etc.  Alcohol is cheap, free and legal medicine.   Oh, and deadly too.

I'll keep y'all updated and PM you @VII, 'cause if we know each other then ...... *doing the mind blown thingie against my temples*

 

[PTFC]

The classic med to treat alcohol withdrawal was Libriuuum/Chlordi@@zepoxide, but Di@z is the way to go now, nice long half life. Stay safe @jimfriedrice.

 

[VII]

@VIIHmm. maybe my xan usage wasn't so moderate.  I see what you're saying about the peak, or what I believe is referred to as half-life der, I meant "time to peak level" in this chart.  

another edit:  Actually now that I look at it again, both columns combine to paint an interesting contrast between all the drugs.  Just to compare the two, xan will peak quicker and stay in your system longer than ox, which will peak slower and stay in your system for a lesser amount of time.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2172250-overview

correct me if I'm wrong.  Before I found this forum my work day priority was simply, get there on time and try not to talk to anyone unless I absolutely have to. Then I found an SY vendor to help. But anyway, for the last couple of weeks I'd take 1mg of xan in the morn, then another 1mg later in the day.  Work days dealing with withdrawals = piece of cake.  The only time this was scary was the last couple of days driving on the highway on the way home from work.  That shit has been hypnotic, and I was a little unsteady on the road.  I'm done with it for at least a month or else I fail my IOP, so I'll be more careful in the future with what I have left.  I used a CC w/MG to buy from an SY vendor and I'm kinda terrified to try again, even though I got some good product in the end.  Cash is non-existent.  Unless I hit on the scratch tickets I plan to buy later!  (yeah, I'm a moron).  So I hope to never go that route again.

I certainly started drinking in my teens to help with my anxiety.  I bet for the people your talking about the issue is the same.  Anxiety, depression, etc.  Alcohol is cheap, free and legal medicine.   Oh, and deadly too.

I'll keep y'all updated and PM you @VII, 'cause if we know each other then ...... *doing the mind blown thingie against my temples*

The charts stated in the link seem fairly accurate based on personal experience and first hand experience. Seeing xan will stay in your system for awhile can indeed help keep your anxiety levels at a low percentage for the majority of your day even after the peak starts to deflate. 

I can see you do need this medication, however you need to be weary of addiction signs-- there's no need to go through another detox after this buddy. If your mind is telling you to take xan each time you feel extremely stressed or panic attacks start to erupt that's a red flag that your body is already dependent on the substance. With that said, go easy on the xan and take it as needed for the detox process until you can see a psychiatrist regarding your panic stages which may be a panic disorder. You should get the meds you need from a psychiatrist based on your location with ease if they properly diagnose you with a panic disorder or something similar where you need these meds to function.

I'm fairly sure any doctor/psychiatrist would be against using xan to treat daily panic issues-- that's what KP and val are designed for. I might be wrong on this, but from what I've been told over the past ten years from psychiatrists and doctors xan is best used "when needed" apposed from consistent use to treat the disorder for long-term issues.

Gotta be careful with those scratchers, they're addicting! I love them, usually never break even but fun none the less. Trying to avoid any gambling issues here but every now and then might as well have some fun.

If money is an issue and you absolutely need it you may ask a vendor if they're willing to sell a lesser amount or perhaps get multiple products in one package for a lower price, similar to a sample package. I wish there was an easy way to solve this but money will be tight for awhile for most people seeing taxes, food, and gas aren't getting any cheaper. Keep in mind, if you need the medications and I mean actually NEED them I'd suggest put away some funds each month towards vendors seeing you never want to run short on something you may be hooked on. The last thing I'd want you to go through is a benzo withdrawal.

Ah, I didn't read the part yet about drinking as a teen. You have all the symptoms of a panic disorder, I'd highly suggest getting into the hands of a "good" psychiatrist to get what you need. There's no reason for them not to treat your panic issues if you've been experiencing this your whole life. It's miserable, I know but I just hope you can get on what you need ASAP through a psych.

None the less, don't fear going to a psych about this. The chances are if you pull the right strings you'll get what you need and you'll be a lot happier knowing your panic issues are being treated properly and accordingly. I'll do some research regarding some "good" psychs in your area and PM you with what I find. There's also a section of the forums that's based around what doctors/psychs are known to prescribe specific meds and there's one that links you to a site to look up all that information.

Keep up the good work, and stay safe buddy.

-VII

 

[jimfriedrice]

The classic med to treat alcohol withdrawal was Libriuuum/Chlordi@@zepoxide, but Di@z is the way to go now, nice long half life. Stay safe @jimfriedrice.

I think from reading previous material you're a medical professional of some sort.  My doc prefers to prescribe the Ox and I have to say it works pretty well for me.  Until I relapse that is.   IOP, here we come.

@VII, thanks for all that.  I'll reach out via PM soon.  I need to have lunch then have to attend a web conf @ 1pm, so it may be a few hours, but you've given me so much and again, I thank you for that.

 

[VII]

I think from reading previous material you're a medical professional of some sort.  My doc prefers to prescribe the Ox and I have to say it works pretty well for me.  Until I relapse that is.   IOP, here we come.

@VII, thanks for all that.  I'll reach out via PM soon.  I need to have lunch then have to attend a web conf @ 1pm, so it may be a few hours, but you've given me so much and again, I thank you for that.

Oh gosh please don't say that, I don't want to come off as a know it all. I'm just providing information that I was provided by doctors in my lifetime and from other users past experiences. I hope I didn't give the wrong impression or anything, if so please forgive me-- I'm just trying to help.

No problem, take your time. There's no need to rush anything at all, just take it easy. Nothing will vanish, it can wait.

I'm glad I was able to assist you even if it's just a little, you too have also helped me and I have to thank you aswell for that. Very grateful to have you here on DBG.

Regards,

-VII

 

[jimfriedrice]

Oh gosh please don't say that, I don't want to come off as a know it all. I'm just providing information that I was provided by doctors in my lifetime and from other users past experiences. I hope I didn't give the wrong impression or anything, if so please forgive me-- I'm just trying to help.

No problem, take your time. There's no need to rush anything at all, just take it easy. Nothing will vanish, it can wait.

I'm glad I was able to assist you even if it's just a little, you too have also helped me and I have to thank you aswell for that. Very grateful to have you here on DBG.

Regards,

-VII

crap, I'm sorry.  That first paragraph (quoted below) was meant for @PTFC, not you.  I'm just starting to get the hang of this forum.

Not sure if I can multi-quote but here's the first paragraph I was talking about, which again, should have been directed to @PTFC

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think from reading previous material you're a medical professional of some sort.  My doc prefers to prescribe the Ox and I have to say it works pretty well for me.  Until I relapse that is.    IOP, here we come. 

 

[PTFC]

I think from reading previous material you're a medical professional of some sort.  My doc prefers to prescribe the Ox and I have to say it works pretty well for me.  Until I relapse that is.   IOP, here we come.

@VII, thanks for all that.  I'll reach out via PM soon.  I need to have lunch then have to attend a web conf @ 1pm, so it may be a few hours, but you've given me so much and again, I thank you for that.

No, I'm not at all @jimfriedrice, I just know what you are going through.

 

[jimfriedrice]

gotcha!  I made an ass out of you and me.  Well, not so much you, if you're familiar with the saying.

 

[PTFC]

gotcha!  I made an ass out of you and me.  Well, not so much you, if you're familiar with the saying.

Don't be silly! I understood where you were coming from! ☺ I do wish you every success mate. Vent here if/when you need to! 

 

[ElectroNymph]

Cholrodi@zepoxide was very weak for my withdrawls, glad they upped it! Some very kind nurses, some judgemental ones, and some rather bitchy grannies - I was only 25 and terrified!

 

[Missy50]

Hi All,

 Well,  I made it to 4 yrs. sober today.  I am really praying for you @jimfriedrice.  I went CT the 1st time I tried to get sober and I think I almost died.  I don't recommend it. I think the best thing to do is have someone with you when you withdrawal.  The 2nd and last time was almost as bad, the shaking and sweating is the worst.  I remember putting that last drink of warm watered down vodka to my lips, yuk!  Anyhow there is hope and there is help.  I was 46 when I got sober and I was drinking a 1/2 to 3/4 a handle a day.  I am in AA and it does work.  The key is to look for the similarities in others.  Open mindedness, willingness, oh and honesty, all very important.  I am in Socal and we have great meetings for everyone.  No evangelism that I've seen.  Many an Athiest have stayed sober in AA.  Your higher power doesn't have to be God, just not you. I am incredibly grateful to be alive today.  I wish everyone well who is suffering from addiction.  Please let me know if I can help.

Much Love,

Missy50

 

[jimfriedrice]

Missy, thank you!  i went 8 days sober then..... last friday fell off the wagon.  I'm kinda cheating my IOP, drinking tonight and expect to be tested on Friday.  Stupid, but we'll see where the cards lay when they're dropped.  I appreciate the thought that my higher power doesn't have to be God.  My heart also goes out to everyone suffering from addiction.  it's a ridiculous mess.  So difficult.

 

[2earls]

@jimfriedrice hi there. 8 days is really impressive! If you can do that, I think you have it in the bag. I'm not saying it's easy, but 8 days shows you really have it in you to do this. The trick is to keep trying and not give up. You have our support and maybe posting about your journey will help.

 

[PTFC]

I'm with @2earls Jim, don't look at it as a failure,  more of a work in progress,  8 days IS impressive. Dust yourself down and get back on your feet, don't punish yourself! Thanks for keeping us informed, writing it down and talking can really help and motivate you.