Guns...

[Kurt Codean]

I'm sorry @Biteme about your family's loss. Well I think rationally there isn't a big debate here. The stats on gun deaths don't outweigh other problems and this 2nd amendment issue has been pecked at for most of my adult life. I don't like to see the constitution debased in any way. The only reason there is a seeming problem with guns is irresponsible gun users, and a media which is ready to exploit this in any way they can. I've already made some rational points so I have to agree and disagree with you on some of yours. I respect the Swiss and their gun rights, and think many other non European countries have lots of guns. And like I said there is no amount of vetting that can prevent such tragedies as what you described. How can a city with tight gun control still have gun crime? This happened in Europe, it happens in most American cities all the time. So Gun control doesn't work. The only way to really stop it would be to make manufacturing illegal and that would be close to impossible. 

 

[yellowbelly]

There are approx 5 times more people killed by knives every year than guns (at least when it comes to murders) in the U.S.  Just something to think about..

 

[Biteme]

There are approx 5 times more people killed by knives every year than guns (at least when it comes to murders) in the U.S.  Just something to think about..

That's just completely wrong. Assuming you're just concerned about homicide--and suicides and accidental deaths with guns are much higher than ones with knives--there are about 6x as many gun homicide deaths. Look at the FBI states for any year. 2013, for instance, since it showed up 1st when I searched. 8,454 people killed with guns compared to 1,490 killed with knives & other bladed weapons.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

 

[yellowbelly]

That's just completely wrong. Assuming you're just concerned about homicide--and suicides and accidental deaths with guns are much higher than ones with knives--there are about 6x as many gun homicide deaths. Look at the FBI states for any year. 2013, for instance, since it showed up 1st when I searched. 8,454 people killed with guns compared to 1,490 killed with knives & other bladed weapons.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

Well, maybe you should read this. Perhaps I am full of shit! http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/11/knives-kill-more-people-each-year-than-rifles-time-for-knife-control/

 

[Biteme]

Those are statistics for assault weapons not guns. Maybe your just don't know how to read. 

 

[aintnouse]

I wonder how many innocent people get killed by drive by stabbings? In my town gun violence is out of control. I am not sure where I stand on the issue anymore.  I think people have the right to own certain weapons for hunting or sport but I am not sure where I draw the line.  Its really a tricky issue.....Gun owners and anti-gun people are so steadfast in their beliefs that I think a compromise will never be reached. I don't think its just guns that are the problem, our country, for some reason has a culture of violence that doesn't really seem to exist in other comparable countries.   I am not really sure why....and I am doubtful that it will ever change....

 

[Conceited]

yea true ..Its always going to be one of them things that wont change ..I would like more guns in the police force ,in the uk anyway but then again the police are under investigation for beating and killing a friend of mines .would they have shot him who knows , it does say something that the US police are over getting trained by scottish police on how to not shoot a criminal .

Dude you want the uk police to carry more guns. Some of them can't even be trusted with a Tazer. There are numerous cases where officers have used excessive force  when using a Tazer and those people have died. When it was not necessarily needed against unarmed people.   

 

[Gallon]

I'm not questioning the right to protect yourself. I'm just saying that most people don't approach this subject rationally & that's true for people on both sides of the argument. My oldest brother is a big believer in having a gun for self-defense, but even when he lived in Detroit he never needed one. He also never expected his 17 year old son to use the gun on himself, but that is a real danger, although I'd never say that to him. There are far too many gun owners who are not responsible. I said in an earlier post that I'd be happy to let people own fully automatic weapons if they were required to have the appropriate vetting and training. In Switzerland, most homes have guns but I think people think of gun ownership very differently.

If people wanted to kill themselves, the fact that they owned a gun or not would not determine the end result. I think we all know that.  I own a gun, and have a permit to carry. I am also not one of those hard right Trump followers either. I believe guns don't kill people.  People kill people. The fact that a gun is more likely to used on the owner is a widely misguided fact. I can't think of any situation that anything like that would happen in MY house. If there is a burglar who came into my house in the middle of the night... If they hear you and don't run and are able to get close enough to you to take away your gun, then they mean to do harm to you.....make sense?? This is whether they have a gun or not..  They may stab you or choke you.. or you may have to fight to the death with this guy.   My ability to sleep at night  increases with the fact that I have a gun and this person's last thought would be he made a mistake entering my home.

 

[Biteme]

If people wanted to kill themselves, the fact that they owned a gun or not would not determine the end result. I think we all know that.  I own a gun, and have a permit to carry. I am also not one of those hard right Trump followers either. I believe guns don't kill people.  People kill people. The fact that a gun is more likely to used on the owner is a widely misguided fact. I can't think of any situation that anything like that would happen in MY house. If there is a burglar who came into my house in the middle of the night... If they hear you and don't run and are able to get close enough to you to take away your gun, then they mean to do harm to you.....make sense?? This is whether they have a gun or not..  They may stab you or choke you.. or you may have to fight to the death with this guy.   My ability to sleep at night  increases with the fact that I have a gun and this person's last thought would be he made a mistake entering my home.

Sorry you misunderstand what a fact is. It's not something based on your personal experience--it's data from a large sample that is evaluated. Women are more likely than men to try to commit suicide and less likely to actually kill themselves. That's a fact & there are plenty of data to support it. And women are much less likely to use a gun than men when trying to kill themselves, that's a fact. So ODing on pills is much less effective than putting a gun in your mouth. There is also plenty of data showing that someone is more likely to be shot and killed by a family member or by themselves than they are by someone trying to break into their home, that's a fact. So my comments are not directed at you nor at an individual, they are directed at the total population, for whom owning a gun may make them feel better but will also make them less safe. As I've said before, I'm not anti-gun, but people don't act rationally in relation to guns & there are plenty of people who shouldn't even be allowed to get behind the wheel of a car who can get guns. And it was just plain idiocy to block laws that would of kept people on terrorist watchlists from buying guns.

 

[2earls]

Such a polarizing topic, even my family and I have had some lengthy disagreements. So... like politics and religion, I don't discuss my feelings on the matter. Right after the Orlando massacre, I happened to watch a PBS special on the NRA.

It occurred to me that the pro-gun segment of society is much more vocal and passionate than the anti-gun side who is more passive and compromising. "We don't want to take your guns, we just want to have more regulations blah blah blah ".

Until the anti-gun side adopts the same, almost religious fervor that the hard core gun lobby represents, we will always be on the losing side. Gun sales (of semi-automatic weapons), spiked here last week. In fear of losing the right to buy them and in fear of having to defend themselves.

 

[2earls]

I'm not afraid because I don't own a gun, I'm afraid of everyone who does. I'm not trying to make enemies, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I think Americans who don't like guns are too intimidated to speak out.

I know that old catch phrase "guns don't kill, people do". Since getting rid of people isn't the answer, what is? I'm not on a soapbox here, I just want to represent the people who want change, and not the kind where every citizen has to be armed.

 

[girlgerms]

Our household has about 8 guns. Me and my old man each have 1 handgun ( mine, a .357 Taurus revolver) I have my grandpas Russian SKS, and the others are long rifles/shotguns the kind used for hunting. I dont consider myself "armed" and we dont have them because we are afraid.

I was thinking about it; out here in rural America. I'm not sure I know anybody out here who does not have at least one old shotgun In their house.  I remember learning how to use a gun when I was in grade school, my boys know how to use our guns and have taken hunters safety class ( they have zero intrest in target shooting or hunting) and they think its "boring" :/

I also dont know anybody who has used their firearm to hurt themselfs or hurt anyone else.  Never heard of anyone having "aaccidental shooting" or whatever.

Going by the statistics, with the amount of firearms out here vs people, we should have someone killed by a gun at least every day. And it never happens.

I guess its more rural vs urban issue. Really,  if you live in a big city and you go buy yourself a gun- who teaches you how to use it? Where do you go to practice shooting it?  Out here everyone goes out to a 20 acre gravel pit owned by the county , even the cops go out there to practice shooting targets.

Im sorry but, like most old people I think the problem is urban youth , they have access to guns that they have not been taught to respect or use.

I dont care if they ban what-they-consider  assault weapons.   There is no reason I could see a civilian needing military weapons. 

Or.... they could just ban murder? I kid ! I really see both sides of the issue. Unfortunatly you cant make people not hate other people. You cant make people respect the law and their fellow man. We cant ban everything people use to hurt each other

 

[2earls]

@girlgerms I probably shouldn't generalize, but I tend to agree with the culture you grow up with having an impact. I mean specifically city vs country.

We've always had mentally ill people, it seems to me it's the hate that's on the rise. In my parents time, they disagreed with politicians or ideas, now it's "I hate Obama, Trump, whoever". I guess I'm just a flower power, peace, and love, kind of girl.

 

[Gallon]

I agree and respectfully disagree  with what many views here.  I think there should be tougher gun laws. I don't believe in getting a tougher gun law banned this year and fighting for tougher laws next year. Assault rifles ...maybe we should really restrict who owns these.  As far as assigning a gender with an ownership of a gun.... maybe this  is borderline sexist.... not sure... not sure if you meant men are stronger than women and could wrestle it away or the fact if women have the  ba**s to shoot or not when endangered .  In any case.....as was suggested earlier. This is a broad Subject ...not easy to solve...but, we must all think about it...what is happening...we have a problem. .. where it lies is the open issue I think...sorry. just my .02

 

[2earls]

It starts by the opposing sides genuinely trying to find common ground. As I understood the hardline gun group's stand, it's that any type of ban just opens the door to more and more restrictions and loss of "rights and freedom".

This is not necessarily the case. Weaponry will only become more sophisticated and deadly, so I feel anything militaristic should not be owned by the general public. The idea that owning any type of guns would protect us from our own government, is simply absurd.

 

[2earls]

Respectful, well intended dialog; such as we're having, is what is needed. Not extremists from both sides hunkering down and refusing to budge. We should start by agreeing something must be done. A school shooting happened here, in my small city. It was heartbreaking.

 

[Back2Good]

I can see the best thing for me to do would be to stay out of this topic, and thus I shall do so - I don't want to come off as a gun fiend, but the fact is that with just my wife and I left living in this big old house, we've practically an armorer's room fit for a light Infantry platoon - And my reasons for having, and maintaining expertise with each and every weapon stored therein (and that's leaving out the fully loaded handguns stored in easy to reach locations near entry points to the household, or stored in locations one would never think to examine), are unlikely to sway anyone in this debate.

I do appreciate the respectfulness and well-meaning of the thread to date though - I may not be posting here, but you can bet I'm reading.

V/R

- b2g

 

[aintnouse]

I got rid of my gun when my daughter was 2.  I have a big dog....and she will protect my family.   I have lived in the hood, nice urban areas and now I live in the suburbs. I think one of the best ways to protect yourself is to have a dog.  A big one.   I have noticed the people that are interested in committing crimes are scared of dogs.  My city is (for its size) is incredibly violent.  Most of the crime is committed by wanna-be gangstas that really have no comprehension on the value of life.  It saddens me to see young men gunned down at the ripe old age of 19 or incarcerated for life at the ripe old age of 19.   I am not a fan of guns but I am not really sure what the answer is....People seem angrier nowadays and really quick on the draw to solve their problems.    I wish people would place a higher value on human life and realize the impact of taking one.

I am not sure why anyone would be opposed to complete, universal background checks and the restriction of military type assault rifles.  I don't have answer for the myriad of illegal guns used on the streets but we have to start somewhere.....

 

[chilly willy]

A gun is for protection. Guns can also be used for entertaiment, have you ever been out shootin? That shit is hella fun. 

 

[US Army Veteran]

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. I use guns for personal protection.