Newbie intro

[Jools]

@aintnouse my dad passed in August 09. 7 weeks from his 90th. It's a real testament to his will to survive as his body suffered a great deal of damage from the 2 years in Siberia. He lost his teeth but he lost much memory, bone problems due to severe malnourishment and his heart developed a lifelong arythmia. He NEVER EVER comp,aimed and just got on with life. He worked in the mines for 16 years and layer remarked he would not have gone down another pit for 10k a day. 

He lost his birth family to the gulags. He has great bone pain but refused pain killers as he was scared of the effect it had on him. He loved to drink though, he was Polish after all lol. He could drink a litre of fine scotch and all that would happen was he would have a bigger grin and would tell very rude jokes and mama used to tell him " be quiet Jan" !  Oh man, thank you as this is bringing me some good memories. 

Pin his last day, he asked me if I would take him to church one last time as this would be his last time on earth. I thought this was a strange thing to say and asked why he said it. He said that he knew today was his time. I said no more at that stage. He was popping my morphine 10mg pills by this stage though and so I knew he was in pain though I never let on to knowing he took my pills 

when we got home from church he asked me to go to the pub and have lunch alone. He wanted to have the house to himself, I didn't realise why at that stage. I was worried so came home just barely 45 minutes later. He had got changed from his suit, Into his comfy clothes, got comfortable and fell asleep,with a cat on his lap. He never woke. I saw him looking so relaxed, one knee resting on the other and I could see there was no point in doing heart massage and CPR. I was shocked and stunned and it hurt a lot but I've grown to understand that this was him dying on HIS terms and so very very peacefully. He knew this was his last day and he accepted it, said his last confession and took his last communion. Said his final prayers. 

As Kenny Rogers said, the best we can hope for is to die in our sleep. It was nothing less than he deserved after a lifetime of fighting, pain and battles on so many fronts. I am proud to have called him dad. His legacy is strong. I have no kids but my brothers did and I look after them and keep them in step. 

He lobed life, he revelled in it and took every day by the balls and sucked the life from it. He laughed a lot, had many friends, people laughed with him but never at him. I can only hope someday someone will write of me just partly like this. RIP Jan Pirog, proud son of Poland. 

The sad part was he could never go home but he made our home little Poland. 

Thank you all for making me remember the many good times. X

 

[PTFC]

@aintnouse, it is meant to be comical! I seen it on an old postcard some time ago. I am happy we have made you happy @Jools,  My father was a skimmer on picket duty during the Falklands , never came back the same, never been the same. I followed his footsteps, though went to Dartmouth instead of Greenwich , and seen far less action. Still a skimmer though, and warfare instead of engineering officer. The Type 42's will never die! Met many great Marines, Paras with brains as my Scots Guard friend extols them so. Per mare, Per Terram. 

 

[Jools]

@PTFC. Brains lol. The cherry berets all have been wired up wrong as far as I am concerned. I do have a close friend in 1st para but he really is not right. I try hard not to generalise but it's difficult not to when you have fought with this lot so many times. It's been my experience that they have a chip on their shoulder and feel a pathological urge to go at any boot neck yet come out on the losing side on more occasions than not. In my short time of service we had numerous battles and union street in Plymouth would resemble downtown Beirut at times lol. I can laugh now but the regulators baton skills certainly left me with souvenirs of such things.

Personally I saw no action but given my short period of serving I was lucky in all honesty. Like your father, I saw many come back from that god forsaken island in bits. It belittles our boys to say the enemy were boys & ive seen the after effects and very evident PTSD, subsequent suicides and havoc that alcoholism has vested upon our boys  and my closest friend infact checked out because he just couldn't handle civvy street and the lack of order with no direction. Lord knows, I found it hard and after just 3 years but I thank god I got into sales and at least could put to use logistic skills and not be tied into an office or factory. I remember my friend Sgt Ricky McGrath with love, affection and respect. He had 11 jobs within his 1st year as a civvy. He drank heavily,like the rest of us and interpersonal relationships suffered as he tried to run it off, running marathons, triathlons and gym work. One day it all came on top and he stuck his exhaust through his window then basically hermetically sealed the car with foam and mastic.

He saw action in Ireland and the Falklands. His stories of Ireland would make anyone nervous, many will never understand the reality of fighting a guerilla force and the difficulties in trying to fight in that manner. RIP Ricky. 

Yes, people are never the same and I can tell who has served within a few sentences. I am a little different because this is actually the first time I have given this information freely. I didn't want it to define me, like it does many others plus there is always the idiot who wants to try himself against us. At first I did it for my father but grew to love the life but my back was shot and I started getting high strength pain killers while on leave. My crisis point came on exercise and we were extracting people by helicopter. I grabbed my man, couldn't hold him and both of us fell around 30 feet. We were both extremely lucky to not come out badly hurt but it then all came out & I was offered a desk jockey job & I just couldn't do it. I was medically discharged 1986. 

The Scots eh lol. I still sing a song that was a beaut from the Argyle & Sutherlanders, the thin red line. I've always got on brilliantly well with all the scots I've met. I wish I could say the same about the Irish. 

Small world indeed. Seems we have a few old salts on here. Nice one 

If there are other matelots on here please make yourself known and maybe we can have an area in which to chat ?

 

[Trinitygirl4]

Hello All! I am a newbie - I live in FL and have been suffering from chronic pain due to failed hip surgery. I am so thrilled to have found this group and to be a part of this. You are all so extremely helpful and I so appreciate all the info, advice and guidance! I feel like I won the lottery finding this group.. Thank you for accepting me and adding me to the group. THANK YOU for the add again! Heading to work now even though we are under Hurrianc Watch and Tropical Storm Watch. We are in for some nasty weather today.. Hope everyone stays safe!. Have a great day!

 

[PTFC]

Hello All! I am a newbie - I live in FL and have been suffering from chronic pain due to failed hip surgery. I am so thrilled to have found this group and to be a part of this. You are all so extremely helpful and I so appreciate all the info, advice and guidance! I feel like I won the lottery finding this group.. Thank you for accepting me and adding me to the group. THANK YOU for the add again! Heading to work now even though we are under Hurrianc Watch and Tropical Storm Watch. We are in for some nasty weather today.. Hope everyone stays safe!. Have a great day!

Welcome @Trinitygirl4, unfortunately that sentence was not appropriate, and if you have a look over the forum rules you will see why. In any case, Consider it a newbie error and we can move onwards and upwards!  Take some time to familiarise yourself with the forum, and the rules as I said, good to have you! ☺ 

@PTFC. Brains lol. The cherry berets all have been wired up wrong as far as I am concerned. I do have a close friend in 1st para but he really is not right. I try hard not to generalise but it's difficult not to when you have fought with this lot so many times. It's been my experience that they have a chip on their shoulder and feel a pathological urge to go at any boot neck yet come out on the losing side on more occasions than not. In my short time of service we had numerous battles and union street in Plymouth would resemble downtown Beirut at times lol. I can laugh now but the regulators baton skills certainly left me with souvenirs of such things.

Personally I saw no action but given my short period of serving I was lucky in all honesty. Like your father, I saw many come back from that god forsaken island in bits. It belittles our boys to say the enemy were boys & ive seen the after effects and very evident PTSD, subsequent suicides and havoc that alcoholism has vested upon our boys  and my closest friend infact checked out because he just couldn't handle civvy street and the lack of order with no direction. Lord knows, I found it hard and after just 3 years but I thank god I got into sales and at least could put to use logistic skills and not be tied into an office or factory. I remember my friend Sgt Ricky McGrath with love, affection and respect. He had 11 jobs within his 1st year as a civvy. He drank heavily,like the rest of us and interpersonal relationships suffered as he tried to run it off, running marathons, triathlons and gym work. One day it all came on top and he stuck his exhaust through his window then basically hermetically sealed the car with foam and mastic.

He saw action in Ireland and the Falklands. His stories of Ireland would make anyone nervous, many will never understand the reality of fighting a guerilla force and the difficulties in trying to fight in that manner. RIP Ricky. 

Yes, people are never the same and I can tell who has served within a few sentences. I am a little different because this is actually the first time I have given this information freely. I didn't want it to define me, like it does many others plus there is always the idiot who wants to try himself against us. At first I did it for my father but grew to love the life but my back was shot and I started getting high strength pain killers while on leave. My crisis point came on exercise and we were extracting people by helicopter. I grabbed my man, couldn't hold him and both of us fell around 30 feet. We were both extremely lucky to not come out badly hurt but it then all came out & I was offered a desk jockey job & I just couldn't do it. I was medically discharged 1986. 

The Scots eh lol. I still sing a song that was a beaut from the Argyle & Sutherlanders, the thin red line. I've always got on brilliantly well with all the scots I've met. I wish I could say the same about the Irish. 

Small world indeed. Seems we have a few old salts on here. Nice one 

If there are other matelots on here please make yourself known and maybe we can have an area in which to chat ?

I don't let it define me either, It's my family tradition for the eldest son if possible to go to sea, it goes back many generations now. I resented it at first, but enjoyed it immensely after I respected the fact I had passed an Admiralty review board. Having said that, minimum commission time served and back to civvies with only some mild physical distress, I enjoy my job now and it's perfect with regards to organisation/structure etc. Adaptability is key, and not all can manage, though from personal experience I believe it is much easier now than in your time, I didn't go into service until 10 years after you left.

 

[Jools]

@PTFC the age to enlist has gone up too. I don't know if you watched the TV programme last year but they had guys at 31 going through it at Lympstone. I was close to the limit when I joined up as it was 27 then. My friend is still active after 26 years. He said he us couldn't turn down the extra money so BZ to him on that. I am jealous of truthful as he's 55, fit as the proverbial butchers dog and is loving his life. I've known him from school and never would have thought him the type. 

When I say I did t want it to define me, it's very much a personal thing and because I see so many do nothing but talk about it and when we are at football or other then it can get to be a pain. I never developed that services accent either so I can go undetected much of the time. I'm not ashamed ! I am proud but obviously and due to the manner of my discharge I feel a let down and even now that's the case at times. Facts are facts though. If not fit to do the job then I really should have volunteered this. 

 

[Kalsima]

@PTFCare you talking about the type 42 is the destroyer that you were on, an impressive ship I just googled because I wasn't hip to that classification!

@JoolsI spent the afternoon reading about your father. My he was a very handsome man! I'm so sorry to hear about losing your grandparents at the gulags. I can only imagine what they must have endured as well as your father. I read the Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzheritsyn many years ago and know of the horrid conditions. It was a book that was hard to get through. And yes, I stand corrected about the Firely. I read up on the firefly that it could penetrates panzer or a tiger tank at a 1000 meters, I would assume from the side! It had the 17 pound British gun mounted on it. Although I have seen a picture of a tiger tank with two hits on the glacis plate but I can't tell if it penetrated. 

I am still looking at the many links it has, I have been so busy with packing because I'm getting ready to move my son to Denver Colorado that I still have to finish packing because I'm planning on staying out there for awhile. I still am on pins and needles waiting to hear back from Airbnb  if my application was even accepted! As I told @aintnousetrying to get a teenager to even help me pack up his own belongings is difficult he is no help to me so I have been extremely busy. I can't imagine that I'm sending my son off to college while you're you're dad was 20 I believe defending his country. It's just so hard to comprehend what he went through. The gulags and the Falaise Gap. It is definitely great reading and I can't imagine how proud you must have been of him. I'm proud of him and I have no relationship to him at all. I couldn't imagine my lazy son being at war against the Russians and the Germans at that age, it's just hard to me to fathom. In fact it's impossible!

Every chance I get a break I go back to the site about your father, I'm sure I will have more questions to come, but that medal that is shown on the page, does that mean that your father was awarded The Order of the White Eagle? It seems unlikely because so few were awarded but your father was such an extraordinary man. I'm having to google Polish medals, because I have little insight on them. But the war, I have plenty insight on after reading countless books and watching so many documentaries. Thank God that Hitler attacking Russia was a huge mistake. I've seen many pictures of the Germans actually standing frozen to death with their rifles.

i read your post about your dad above and it seemed like he definitely knew his death was approaching and went with grace, never complaining. Just as he did everything in his life with honor.

On this day in 1939 Germany attacked Poland, I'm sure you know. That's crazy that we are discussing it! 

Like i said, thank you for sharing your fathers story, I'm sure I will ask more questions but I'll ask you by pm because I didn't mean to hijack a thread about military history. But it's absolutely fascinating to me, that many of the things I've read about your father actually did!

@Trinitygirl4 welcome to the forum, sorry I didn't see your intro. Read the rules like our wonderful mod @PTFCsuggested and if you have any questions the members here are awesome just ask and someone will be sure to help you.

Wishing everyone the best today! Love you all, heavenlee 

 

[Jools]

@Heavenlee my father was awarded the Virtuti Militari during wartime. This is the Us equivalent of the medal of honour and English Victoria cross. I will habe to get ALL of his medals and post war awards and take a photograph for you. He was awarded the restituta Polonia just a couple,of years before his death and it caused quite a stir. We had local TV and reporters from Poland here. Dad was, as usual, non plussed and even though he was honoured by this, I don't think he truly understood the incredible honour it was and is. I am still finding out much about the structure of the awards in Poland and now I have the great people at the 11th Lubuska "Black" division to answer my questions then it's helping a great deal. 

Dad had to be pushed into wearing his real medals and instead wore ribbons and miniatures. I buried him with his miniatures proudly on his chest. I had some of the extended family give me some crap about that but it wasn't their business and I didn't let it get to me. 

Thank you so much for your kind comments. It really is a strange time for dates. Dad dying, the fighting in Normandy and the attack on Poland all together and within days. I have found this site to have been an excellent distraction from the usual depressive and sad thoughts I habe at this time. You are a mind and generous of heart person and I appreciate this 

 

[Conceited]

@Heavenlee yeah the Sherman m4 with the 17 pounder was a formidable gun and the Germans came to fear it by the end of the war because it couple penetrate the the most heavily armored German tanks at long distances of 1000-1500 depending where  you hit it ie weak spots,  like the pather and jagtiger with AP rounds. Its funny that the us gave the Sherman to the brits after Dunkirk but the 75mm was only good for the panzers variants. So they gave the Sherman chassis to the brits and they added the 76mm 17 pounder.  Which disabled anything they hit.

The 17 pounder started life as a anti tank gun but it had to be towed or moved by physical moved, that when it was realized the 17 pounder was a game changer and added to tanks.

I like the Russian tanks like the kv2 with the  152mm howitzer, and the legendary T34 it  had powerfull 76mm from the get go, but as there germans were making new tanks and tank destroyers all the time the Russian had to keep, so  they bought out the t34-85  with an 85mm gun. The german didn't stand a chance with them. Especially with the is-1 and 2  

 

[Kalsima]

@ConceitedI agree with all that you say. The KV-2 was an interesting if ungainly looking thing. The Soviets certainly were quick studies of German battle methods. To the point that Bagration looked on a map like Barbarossa in reverse but you know that. Seems the firefly was not even wanted by British high command as unworkable. I'm not sure of my source too much. It seems that the seventeen pounder was everything that Alfrieds 88 was and a bit more. Not great for bunkers and such but pure hell on the latest German armor. We had that damn Sherman period. Feel pretty bad for our tankers in that damn Ronson. We had a great overall strategy that was very hard on our armored forces personnel. How would you like that? Seeing three Royal Tigers and 5 Panthers on the way to say to the funny American tanks you are in? With a couple companies of panzergrenadiers to keep things copacetic for them? It would certainly be exciting but OMFG those guys in those freaking tanks are completely serious! Get me the fuck home! It's not right or even funny for me to die here today, ridiculous. Someone has made a huge mistake. I'm not supposed to even BE here. Just had to answer you man. I got to run to the suboxone Doctor, but this is a getting to be a great thread. We need to start a military history thread for junkies like @PTFC @Jools and @aintnouse and of course you!

 

[Conceited]

@ConceitedI agree with all that you say. The KV-2 was an interesting if ungainly looking thing. The Soviets certainly were quick studies of German battle methods. To the point that Bagration looked on a map like Barbarossa in reverse but you know that. Seems the firefly was not even wanted by British high command as unworkable. I'm not sure of my source too much. It seems that the seventeen pounder was everything that Alfrieds 88 was and a bit more. Not great for bunkers and such but pure hell on the latest German armor. We had that damn Sherman period. Feel pretty bad for our tankers in that damn Ronson. We had a great overall strategy that was very hard on our armored forces personnel. How would you like that? Seeing three Royal Tigers and 5 Panthers on the way to say to the funny American tanks you are in? With a couple companies of panzergrenadiers to keep things copacetic for them? It would certainly be exciting but OMFG those guys in those freaking tanks are completely serious! Get me the fuck home! It's not right or even funny for me to die here today, ridiculous. Someone has made a huge mistake. I'm not supposed to even BE here. Just had to answer you man. I got to run to the suboxone Doctor, but this is a getting to be a great thread. We need to start a military history thread for junkies like @PTFC @Jools and @aintnouse and of course you!

When the us had the M3 lee it was a ratio of 4 Sherman for 1 Tiger. It was a war of attrition. But the use had like 40/50k Sherman compared to the 1500ish Tigers ansd less pathers. But the Tiger  88mm would sniper the Shermans before they even got anywhere near the Tiger. Even if they did get up close they would have to get behind the Tiger andd get an engine shot to immobilize it. But the 88 still went through a Sherman like butter. Depending what shells they used the APCR were OP. Think that's why the British made a few modifications and added the 17 pounder.

Plus the Brits had their own tanks like the Cromwell, Valentine M1 with the 17 pdr  , Churchill MKlV  etc all of them did well at the battle of  El AlAmein.  They had a good selection.

There germans should of stuck with the main battle tanks that worked, and built  more of them then they did, instead of trying to better what they had already.   

 

[Kalsima]

@Conceited,  I was unaware that any British tanks mounted that 17 pounder gun. just too smart for Americans right off the bat to put a proper tank killing gun in the M4 in the first place. Would an M4 gun penetrate even a Mark 4 panzer from any angle? Of course the panzer we are talking about were not imagined when the M4 was designed probably. It Americancentrism in weapons systems I suppose that I don't know a great deal about British armor. I'm so happy you taught me something new! I know it sounds weird that I'm a girl that miss into the military and weapon systems,  but both of my husbands were military brats so I've been bombarded with information since my first marriage. My second marriage my husband actually had me study and identify weapon systems and quiz me on them! He said he was joking when he did that to me but I don't really believe him.  But I still have so much to learn!

 

[Conceited]

@Heavenlee I'm no military historian. Just know a few things about certain tanks, SPG's etc.  The 17 pounder would penetrate any flat surface, but if the tank was angled say 30°/40°  there is a chance it would ricochet. Not sure what percentage.   

 

[PTFC]

@Heavenlee, yes the type 42 was our previous generation of Destroyers, great at its primary role of anti air, but also had very capable anti submarine armament. The new type 45's are probably the finest Destroyers on the planet floating just now, some recent engine problems apart, but as far as I am aware they are purely anti air, though the anti air capability of just one is exceptional, you should have a look if you are interested. I spent a short time on Ark Royal, our old flagship carrier, but then exclusively on the type 42s, Exeter and Nottingham mainly. The Falklands was the last great Naval Conflict of note, though after the Belgrano was sunk, the Argentine Navy retreated to Buenos Aires and took no further part in the conflict. We really wanted to get their carrier Vieceinto de Mayo, but getting the Belgrano was enough. That removed the sea borne air threat, and allowed us to land the fine men to retake the islands with relative ease. We had total Naval superiority, but it was a bit tight with regards to aircraft. The Harrier performance from the Fleet Air arm and the RAF was staggering. A subsonic fighter vs supersonic and excellently French built Mirages should have been a walkover on paper, if it weren't for the Harriers maneuverability and ability to stop in mid-air, they can even fly backwards!!! The whole conflict is worth reading about, it's of great interest to me personally of course. 

Anyway, it's history now. Sorry to hijack your thread a little @Jools! Your father's generation are amazing. A dwindling band of veterans now, though never forgotten.

 

[Jools]

@PTFC the one huge mistake and one that really should have seen heads roll was the bluff cove bombing. Personally I cannot forgive this as it was a balls up of monumental scale and basically left sitting ducks. Poor bastards paid for that. I still find it difficult to watch. 

When the us had the M3 lee it was a ratio of 4 Sherman for 1 Tiger. It was a war of attrition. But the use had like 40/50k Sherman compared to the 1500ish Tigers ansd less pathers. But the Tiger  88mm would sniper the Shermans before they even got anywhere near the Tiger. Even if they did get up close they would have to get behind the Tiger andd get an engine shot to immobilize it. But the 88 still went through a Sherman like butter. Depending what shells they used the APCR were OP. Think that's why the British made a few modifications and added the 17 pounder.

Plus the Brits had their own tanks like the Cromwell, Valentine M1 with the 17 pdr  , Churchill MKlV  etc all of them did well at the battle of  El AlAmein.  They had a good selection.

There germans should of stuck with the main battle tanks that worked, and built  more of them then they did, instead of trying to better what they had already.   

The "Tommy boiler" Sherman, as the Germans nicknamed them, had a couple of advantages to look upon. They were faster and more able to move out of situations much more quickly and they used much less fuel. The Polish were able to make a few adjustments to make them even quicker and it wasn't uncommon for the Poles to weld an extra 2 gun on the top. They were very quick to make use of damaged tanks and take useable parts and add them to their own tanks. Dad survived 5 dead tanks !  Some of his friends truly be,I even he had a gift but I believe much was luck plus he was a little more savvy in front line situations. In one of the attacks by Germans on Falaise, he took the opportunity to get his crew out so they could have a shave as they thought the Canadians would relieve them on that day. As soon as the last man got out, boom. A Tiger took his tank out. 

He carried the name "Gdynia" on his tank and I've spotted it in the videos that come up. I guess he was due some luck after what he went through. 

 

[PTFC]

Absolutely @Jools, an early warning was sent by HMS Valiant, a sub on picket duty off the Argentine coast, I don't know how it was never received. The first attack was horrific, when Galahad was struck. The second attack could have been much worse but was bad enough as it was, quite a few Marines were lost. If I remember correctly, the offending Argy skyhawks in the second attack were all shot down, but there was a fatal communication error with regards to air defence with the first attack which could have prevented/minimised this. I'd agree this was the lowest point of the conflict from our point of view, more so than the loss of Sheffield and Coventry. I read somewhere that the use of those LSL's were somewhat flawed, smaller and more landing craft would have been ideal, but I don't know if this was logistically possible when the task group was put together, in let's face it, a hasty fashion.

It was no walk in the park, and the Argy commanders were fed info that we had suffered "hundreds" of casualties. I bet they got a surprise shortly after. You were spot on about the quality of Argy land forces too Jools, the troops at Tumbledown were some of Argentinas finest. 

 

[Conceited]

@Jools Yeah the Sherman was a good tank after it had been evolved during the war. With it being a medium tank with good move meneuverabilty it was perfect for the small French country side roads. Never understood why the Americans put the 75mm on the hull and the 37mm on the turret when they made the M3 Lee. Basically your most power full weapon could only shoot whatever was on the right hand side, they had to move the whole tank to take a shot if the enemy were slightly to the left side of the tanks firing arc.

 Your grandfather sound like a very lucky man to survive after being hit in 5 tanks. I take it he was the commader of his tanks? Couldn't imagine travelling at speed across a field trying to dodge incoming fire from a load of German tanks and getting hit by a 88mm. Or going down a country side road with a jagpather stealthy hidden waiting for an ally tank to come rolling down the road. I'd take my hat off for him if I had one on.  

 @PTFC The footage i've seen of the ships getting destroyed in the cove attack was shocking to watch. And to think the crewman who were below deck had no chance of getting out alive. Was the surface to air missile defense up and working? I thought they didn't have it operational or it was faulty or something. The situation might of been worse if the SAS didn't take out some of the aircraft on a run way in Argentina. That's what the media portray it like I thought.

It was a feat of  logistics to get all that equipment and men 1000's of milles away at short notice, and be combat ready as soon as you land. That was probably the last time Britain showed the world we can win a war without help from another country. The Americans stayed neutral didn't they? Maggy wasn't having that small piece of land being taken over by thee argies. And took grate pride when it was back in British control     

 

[Jools]

Hi @Conceited

it was my father and not my grandfather. He told me that when men died and were replaced with new men,no one wanted to get too close. The reason being that these guys had already fought in Poland first and then in France then were brought back in the Dunquerque evacuation and had battle experience but the newly trained guys were green  They knew it took the new guys some time to get to know where the shells were coming from and gunfire etc. Dad said if replacement made it through a week then chances were better for them. 

The Americans may have seemed neutral but they supplied satellite intelligence and certainly played a big part plus Chile was a big help indeed and many believe we would have had it much harder, without that. We just couldn't do it again, not now. Savage cuts and not even having a commissioned aircraft carrier is just crazy. Problems with not being able to take certain aircraft has made it a total clusterfuck. As you know, Maggie won an election on the back of the Falklands war 

 

[Kalsima]

@Conceited I'm impressed with your knowledge because I was unaware it was mounted on British tanks. I knew it was a bad ass weapon. But for being a civilian you know a lot more than I did. But he'll I'm an American, but like I told @PTFCknowledge must come from a source. I've been reading up on the Faulklands and the war and saw the ships you were on. Pretty beautiful ships I must say, I can't believe you were on them! That's amazing seeing the picture and knowing I had a friend on them. I will come back and edit this because I had to run errands today, oh I got makeup today! While I'm sitting here writing about tanks and ships! @Jools I still have to pm you back, but I missed the part where you said the Polish were afraid of our Cobra air strikes more than the battle on the field. Wow! I heard the Sherman being called a Tommy Cooker from Americans was unaware it was called the Tommy Boiler also, though I am not surprised at all. @PTFC so I the Faulklands the British lost 6 ships to the Argentians? Like I said, I had so much running around to do today I still have to finish reading about it the war. It is excellent reading though. And both you and @jools and @ainthouse have to be so proud of your fathers, but it's saddens me at what a cost they had paid. War is fascinating to me but at the same time it brings such sadness also. I was thinking about your dads and it reminded me of the The Rolling Stones song Salt of the Earth. This goes out to them! I probably will edit this because I still am reading about all the new information I have learned on Jools newbie intro! 

Let's drink to the hard working people Let's drink to the lowly of birth Raise your glass to the good and the evil Let's drink to the salt of the earth Say a prayer for the common foot soldier Spare a thought for his back breaking work Say a prayer for his wife and his children Who burn the fires and who still till the earth And when I search a faceless crowd A swirling mass of gray and Black and white They don't look real to me In fact, they look so strange Raise your glass to the hard working people Let's drink to the uncounted heads Let's think of the wavering millions Who need leaders but get gamblers instead Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows And a parade of the gray suited grafters A choice of cancer or polio And when I look in the faceless crowd A swirling mass of grays and Black and white They don't look real to me Or don't they look so strange Let's drink to the hard working people Let's think of the lowly of birth Spare a thought for the rag taggy people Let's drink to the salt of the earth Let's drink to the hard working people Let's drink to the salt of the earth Let's drink to the two thousand million Let's think of the humble of birth

 

[Jools]

@Heavenlee that is beautiful. Is that from a song or a poem ?

i write poems and have had a few published by a group of poets. 

I am in the process of trying to write a book. Dad always wanted me to write as he loved my poems. I have written 20,000 words so far. It's based upon my own life and about my brothers deaths from hard drugs. It's been painful to write bit is cathartic is nature. I've written then deleted so much

Wishing you a great weekend