Trump vs Clinton?

[DippityDoo]

I may have to move to England if this election goes awry and then we can really have a lively political debate.

Was discussing the handsome new Canadian Prime Minister with a new DBG member from Canada.  I asked him, depending on the American election results, if a few million clinically-depressed Americans could crash on his couch for, oh I don't know, four or eight years.

Never heard back.  Weird, eh? 

 

[Kalsima]

Omg I have a super crush on Justin Trudeau god he's the coolest prime minister in the world! @DippityDoo I'm with you lady! Was even thinking about Mexico but my ex said there's too much gangs and I could be kidnapped is that true? I haven't been down there for awhile but I thought there were still good places for Americans??? And @aintnouse I couldn't agree more why waste my breath on him!

 

[DippityDoo]

Omg I have a super crush on Justin Trudeau god he's the coolest prime minister in the world! @DippityDoo I'm with you lady! Was even thinking about Mexico but my ex said there's too much gangs and I could be kidnapped is that true? I haven't been down there for awhile but I thought there were still good places for Americans???

Based on what I've read and documentaries I've seen from a wide variety of sources, Mexico has several states which fully qualify as failed states.  The term failed state indicates catastrophe by every measure, where the cartels literally own state and federal police, the judges, the courts, the lawyers, the shop owners.  There is no justice; the people are powerless and defenseless against both the cartels and law enforcement.  Journalists who dare to report on cartel activities are executed as a warning to all.  The murder of journalists to maintain political power is the most grotesque violation of our sacred right to free speech.

Shockingly enough, one of the most deadly, lawless countries on earth has only one...one!...gun store.  It's run by the government and citizens must follow a stringent list of forms and qualifications to be allowed to purchase a weapon.  Even odder, personal gun ownership is guaranteed by the Mexican constitution, yet that same government makes legally purchasing a gun as difficult as humanly possible.

Mexico City is a bustling metropolis and thus offers some physical protection due to the sheer mass of people, but the wealthy are still at risk of kidnapping in broad daylight.  Rural areas are the most dangerous.  The quieter the area, the more you should assume your every move is being watched.

Cruise ships are still stopping at Mexico's coastal tourist ports with no trouble reported thus far.  There was a cartel attack at a resort in Acapulco two years ago, but none reported since then.

Why American factories are moving to Mexico is beyond my comprehension.  The corruption and bribery costs are astronomical, so I don't see how they're saving money by making Oreos in Mexico instead of America.

If Trump were to build a wall that happened to trap me on the Mexican side, I'd scratch and claw my way over that f*cking wall back to the American side so fast it'd qualify as an Olympic event.

 

[aintnouse]

@DippityDoo Those failed states are called "Narco States"  and are controlled by various cartels feuding for $$ in the international market.  The vast majority of guns used in Mexico to perpetrate their wars and violence are from the good ole US of A.   Can anyone say gun control?   

It appears with all the current document dumps that both candidates are equally despicable.  I find it disgusting that people seek public office for their own enrichment.  I was under the impression that public office was supposed to benefit the collective and not make a handful of people very wealthy.  I realize this is not a new phenomenon and I am naive but I think its disgusting that people can claim to champion the poor while collecting millions from the very people that make us poor.   Big Money, Big Pharma, Big Chemical, Big Military, Big everything is dividing this country and distracting us from the real issues at hand.  There is no one person (especially from our current choices) that can right this wayward aircraft carrier we call a country. 

Dammit...its another beautiful day and I should refrain from talking politics!!! Have a good weekend all...November is around the corner and its almost over!!!

 

[Kalsima]

@DippityDooand @aintnouseThank you so much for the info I used to be married to this first husband of mine and his dad was a 3 star retired general (when he retired) and he had a place in Peuerto Penasco called Rocky point. This was many years ago but it was really nice back then abunch of old american airmen and other military community felt americanized there. But he says s lot has changed now adays! Now hes telling me go to costa rica! Yeh right and support an abusive drunk who got me hooked well turned me onto heroin something id never do to my worst enemy! but a good thing came out of it was my son so i am grateful for that! Thanks for your help! I thought he was bs'ing me just to move where he is but ill never go down that road again!

 

[ElectroNymph]

@Smoka90 that surprised me. I guess I see Trump as misogynistic and I see you as a champion for respect of the fairer sex. But I would never think badly of you over political differences.

I can't think of anything more obnoxious than people who are compelled to force their views and beliefs on others; be it politics, religion or something else.

I may have to move to England if this election goes awry and then we can really have a lively political debate.

England isn't bad if you have a useful trade, and cash saved up, but for the poor, it ain't much fun.

I have been living on £204 a month, it's supposed to be £317 (which is stll bad) but they are taking two lots of money off me. 

The sooner I can get a job the better. ?

 

[Kalsima]

@ConceitedI bet is is great comedy if you are not a US citizen and watching from afar. Over here it has caused so much dissension that so many of my friends have unfriended me. I never have seen our country divided so deeply.  I guess it's my fault I wrote on my FB page for Trump supporters to fuck off and unfriend me. But @Smoka90 has a point, that entire system is built on a democracy......but he is such a narcissistic, racist, misogynistic, egomaniacal horrible man to me. It's sad when you see women at Trump rallies wearing TShirts that he can grab their pussys! I'm wondering  if it was the same for our members across the pond if it was like that for with Brexit? I noticed British pound dropped. Was it as ugly over there as it is here? Where people beat up people of color at Trump rallies? I am all about peoples right to vote, so I did change my FB page, but I feel the seconding coming of a Hitleresque state it Trump is elected. Was it as scary over there as it is over here?  Thanks in advance!

@ElectroNymph I feel for you lady, it is the same way over here. I don't know how the government thinks people can live on so little. Is is still called on the dole over there?  When my first husband went to prison I was stuck with a baby and received public assistance and food stamps but still had to steal to Get my methadone everyday. I went to a private clinic (because state run won't dose you enough to stay clean and stabilized) and was charged $14.00 to get doesed everyday so I sold all my food stamps to pay for my methadone so I had to steal our food everyday. It is really sad that we both come from the top wealthiest countries and do not receive enough to live on. It felt like a third world country. I was homeless and it took months to get on public housing, thank god I was stuck in the middle of Phoenix in the desert and some Mexican lady took us in until I got back on my feet again. She was a total stranger and took care of me and my son. And Trump wants to build a fence to keep the Mexicans out, shame on him!

 

[ElectroNymph]

@ConceitedI bet is is great comedy if you are not a US citizen and watching from afar. Over here it has caused so much dissension that so many of my friends have unfriended me. I never have seen our country divided so deeply.  I guess it's my fault I wrote on my FB page for Trump supporters to fuck off and unfriend me. But @Smoka90 has a point, that entire system is built on a democracy......but he is such a narcissistic, racist, misogynistic, egomaniacal horrible man to me. It's sad when you see women at Trump rallies wearing TShirts that he can grab their pussys! I'm wondering  if it was the same for our members across the pond if it was like that for with Brexit? I noticed British pound dropped. Was it as ugly over there as it is here? Where people beat up people of color at Trump rallies? I am all about peoples right to vote, so I did change my FB page, but I feel the seconding coming of a Hitleresque state it Trump is elected. Was it as scary over there as it is over here?  Thanks in advance!

@ElectroNymph I feel for you lady, it is the same way over here. I don't know how the government thinks people can live on so little. Is is still called on the dole over there?  When my first husband went to prison I was stuck with a baby and received public assistance and food stamps but still had to steal to Get my methadone everyday. I went to a private clinic (because state run won't dose you enough to stay clean and stabilized) and was charged $14.00 to get doesed everyday so I sold all my food stamps to pay for my methadone so I had to steal our food everyday. It is really sad that we both come from the top wealthiest countries and do not receive enough to live on. It felt like a third world country. I was homeless and it took months to get on public housing, thank god I was stuck in the middle of Phoenix in the desert and some Mexican lady took us in until I got back on my feet again. She was a total stranger and took care of me and my son. And Trump wants to build a fence to keep the Mexicans out, shame on him!

Yes, I agree. A whole country of people shouldn't be put in the same bracket. That lady sounds very kind though.

I used to steal to get money for blues (valium) but the people getting me the vals used to rip me off too!

The poor need to be looked after properly, I just can't see it ever happening. It's so hard to get out of it too, they say that they want to get people out of poverty, but make it almost impossible to do so.

 

[Kalsima]

@ElectroNymph i agree with you!! I dont understand over here how poor people can vote Republican where its sey up to make the rich, richer! Ignorance and uneducated voters, so sad to see for me a person with african american or mexican heritage voting for trump! Anyways i saw this on twitter this morning! Anyone vare for some Trump cupcakes?

View attachment 1539

 

[ElectroNymph]

@ElectroNymph i agree with you!! I dont understand over here how poor people can vote Republican where its sey up to make the rich, richer! Ignorance and uneducated voters, so sad to see for me a person with african american or mexican heritage voting for trump! Anyways i saw this on twitter this morning! Anyone vare for some Trump cupcakes?

View attachment 1539

Ha-ha... Yum. It's missing a big fat hand molesting them though.

 

[Conceited]

@Heavenlee During the brexit saga, which is still on going. There was a couple of incidences where people got hot headed and had a couple disputes that turned into minor scuffles.   Nothing really bad occurred from the stuff I read online. I don't watch mainstream news  because of the brainwashing that goes on, so can't say there was much about violence before the vote that I know about. It was a very close result 51/49 if I remember correct. This was a big divide for a vote with  a high turn out. 

The devaluation of the pound is not good, fuel prices are going up, along with inflation. Its probably going to get worse for the next few years.

Maybe the next general election it might go off, depending how the talks go once the article 50 is triggered, and who will be the front runners for PM. I think it'll be different to the US election.   

 

[Smoka90]

@2earls Thanks for not thinking any less of me for my political views, I certainly don't think less of you for yours.

But I have to say: I AM a protector of women. Many right wing/nationalist people are; it would surprise you. Don't get me wrong, I loathe Trump's personality, and I hated what he said about women a few years ago.

But let's look at the alternative: well, don't move to England! Women suffer hugely here. And (even with the Conservative party), politics has been dominated by the liberal centre/centre left. I don't want to go into the specifics of how they suffer, because I hate saying it...but if you look at the facts, they do...

I look at the jail terms for rapists, and it makes me SICK! It makes me livid, repulsed. I know one case, very close to me personally.... two and a half years in prison! Released after serving *half* his time. Oooh, bless... So they ruin the lives of their victims...for their whole lives! And they have a few years in prison, treated well by the officials. And this is under liberal policies. Liberal policies. The Labour government at the time. Defenders of women?

If I had my way, they would suffer. Public humiliation. Naked. Dragged through the streets. Harassed by citizens. Life in prison. And life in prison suffering. Torture. That is what they deserve. This would not happen under Clinton. It has not happened under previous centre ground/liberal politicians.

Then we have Clinton. She is a hypocrite. When she was a defence lawyer, she defended a child rapist, and got him off the hook. Oooh, was he innocent, though? Well, Clinton was recorded saying that the accused passed a lie detector test, and that destroyed her faith in lie detector tests. She laughed as she said this. Enough said. She knew he was guilty.

I'm not saying that Donald Trump is a radical feminist. I'm saying that Hillary Clinton is not. With her track record...no. Plus receiving money and having deals with Saudi Arabia...hmm, little dodgy there, considering over there women get stoned to death for being raped.

If people want to support Clinton knowing this, then that's their choice. I did not make this post to attack anyone or to say 'I'm right, you're wrong!'. I've done this post to get all the information out there, and to justify my stance.

Discussion and, to an extent, compromise, is the foundation of democracy. That's what this is about.

Oh, and just a last point. Trump supporters do act badly sometimes. But then...we have this:

My point here is that there are sick people on *all* sides of the political spectrum.

And ramble over. Sorry. I felt like I had to say this.

 

[2earls]

I sincerely doubt that either candidate has a spotless record in many aspects. That's why so many people are appalled at the choice we face. We actually have a cartoon bighorn sheep campaigning in Nevada, "Bucky". I bet he gets a good amount of votes.

I was a fan of Donald's when he was a TV personality, but he's always skeeved me out. Everything from his comments about his daughter, his comments on sexual harassment in the workplace, to his "locker room talk"; just can't believe that he is going to make things better for women. Not to mention abortion and other controversial topics.

We will all know the outcome soon enough and I still have to go vote! 

 

[DippityDoo]

@Smoka90 

Here's how our conservative Republican lawmakers in America have "protected" women recently:

* "If it's a legitimate rape, the woman's body has a way of just shutting that whole thing (pregnancy) down."  

* "If it's a forcible rape (as opposed to consensual rape??), the juices won't flow so she can't get pregnant."

* The trauma of REAL rape stops pregnancy from that rape."

* "If rape is inevitable, just lie back and enjoy it."

* "Rape is usually just buyer's remorse for the woman."

* A white college star swimmer was raping an unconscious woman outdoors by a dumpster; two Swedish guys saw him, stopped him and held him until police arrived.  The rapist got 60 days in jail, serving less with time served.

* A father admitted repeatedly raping his 12-year-old daughter.  Prosecutor asked for 100 years with 75 suspended, leaving 25 to serve.  Judge sentenced him to 30 years will ALL years suspended resulting in 17 days in jail.  The defense lawyer says the father has suffered enough already because he lost his job and has to register as a sex offender.

* This I hear more and more from conservatives, male and female alike:  "Women should have never been given the right to vote."

 

[Smoka90]

@DippityDoo Thanks for the reply, discussion is always good, never something to shy away from.

I've got to hand this to you straight away, you know more than me on US politics, since I'm a sort of...'outsider', to put it one way. So for that reason, I can't agree or disagree with some of the points you made. I'd say, with respect, some of the points were opinions ('If rape is inevitable, just lie back and enjoy it').

And do keep in mind that what you've said about conservatives certainly do not apply to all of them; they definitely don't apply to me.

But in any case, my post was more directed at exposing the left's hypocrisy; both Hillary Clinton's and, in general, the left's unquestionable tolerance towards cultures which treat women like absolute dirt.

There's things I'm screaming out to say, but I don't want to...er...sort of...make conversation even more heated than it already is...

@2earls You're right. I keep thinking that both candidates have an approval rating of less than 50%, and I guess that Trump fans hate Clinton, and Clinton fans hate Trump. That means that whoever wins, 50% of the population will hate the president...

I hope no-one minds a non-US citizen like me sort of...sticking my nose in. But to be fair, I think this election will effect far more than just the US...and it's all over the news here. Plus, British politics has turned into a one-party state, so I always feel tempted to explore more...er...'interesting' politics.

I've got to wonder, though...if both candidates are sort of a bit unpopular, then how come Johnson and Stein are both at, say...1-3% in the polls? Is it just sort of an unwritten rule that voting for anyone who isn't Republican or Democrat is a wasted vote? Believe me, I know how frustrating that is. The system here is very, very similar. Every party I've ever voted for has been a wasted vote...

 

[DippityDoo]

And do keep in mind that what you've said about conservatives certainly do not apply to all of them; they definitely don't apply to me.

I did specify that the noxious pie-holes those quotes fell out of were all from elected lawmakers, Conservative Republican congressmen and the last quote included conservative women both in and out of Congress. 

These are the statesmen and leadership of America who are saying shiat like this.  It got SO bad during the 2012 election that a comedy show kept a sign up to track Republican men's heinous and deeply insulting "education of the public" about rape.  Every time a Republican congressman said something grotesquely stupid about rape, we'd have to reset the clock to zero on how many days these cruel morons could go WITHOUT talking about rape.  That Conservative Rape-Talk clock had to be reset to zero daily for months.

My mother, my father and their 100s of lifelong friends and work colleagues are all conservative Republican moderates who live in 99% Christian areas.  But they are not clinically-insane conservatives.  They're are not trembling with fear, clad in camo jammies with the AR-15 locked and loaded under the pillow, lying awake each night in bed wondering if THIS will be the night when Obama personally busts down their doors, suspends the elections, declares martial law, declares himself King, grabs their guns and forces Christian babies to recite the Communist Manifesto whilst being rounded up in FEMA Sharia camps hidden in clandestine tunnels under Wal-Marts. 

Sounds crazy, don't it?  There was a real U.S. military exercise called Jade Helm happening in Texas in 2015.  But the far-far-far right, all of whom declare themselves the only TRUE American Jesus Patriots and the only patriots smart enough to know when Obama is trying to TRICK them...were convinced all of these horrors and more were definitely going down ANY SECOND NOW.

 

[Kalsima]

@Conceited thanks for her reply, I was curious to see how the other side of the board feels. After all we are all family although we come from all over it is interesting to see how people on the other side live and what's going on in their countries. I was very concerned with the British leaving the European Union, and I don't pretend to know much except your Navy Destroyers have me enchanted lately. Boy are they pretty to look at. But getting back to the topic of Brexit, I'm with you I don't watch that much television for the same reason. Our top television dealing with the election is either Fox News and it is all anti-liberal propaganda and then you have MSNBC new that used to be way more liberal when Keith Olberman was on, but he got fired, but I do love Rachael Maddow still. But they are more libeiral except for Morning Joe. So if you are republican you watch fox and if you are liberal you watch MSNBC. 

I saw some people when interviewed seemed like they were afraid, like what have we done? I was just curious why they even wanted to leave in the first place. It seems like you guys have your right wingers also. Are people happy or still upset? I understood when the euros money came out and the British wanted to keep their pound. I love your pound system by the way, it sounds so cool than the dollar! 

I don't mean to sound ignorant I just don't know enough about brexit. I know I was happy about Scotland not leaving England. Do you have the same hatred as we do over here, I know you said there were some scuffles but is the country divided.

i appreciate any input on the subject because honestly I just don't know enough about it. I'm just happy that in a week from now Hillary will become president and all this shit with FBI director James Comey will be over. 

@Smoka90 I was surprised also but have no bad will towards you, I love you! As an American living in a democracy I do believe everyone has their right to their own opinion and we have fought for that right. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it made me feel so bad I took off my facebook page to unfriend me if you are voting for Trump. Although we might not all agree this is after all the land of the free???? Except if Trump is elected, lol!

 

[Jellopanda]

This really seems to be the topic of the hour. I'm so far to the left of american politics (and to british politics, which was also mentioned, that i'll keep most of my opinions to myself, but still feel like i have something to add. 

@DippityDoo my impression is that the majority of the american people are sensible ones. And that so many people supporting Trump is for many a protest vote, against either Hillary or american politics in general. I feel sure not that many people are as crazy as Trump. That being said, it's hard to tell exactly how crazy he is, maybe he's just as bad as he seems or maybe it's some form of clever, calculated strategy and in reality he's much smarter.

@Heavenlee I'm a bit upset about how the news stations work in the US. They're either liberal or conservative. It didn't used to be that way in the days of Walter Cronkite and Edward R. Murrow, where they provided objective, fact-driven, uninfluenced news for everyone, and not bought and sold by the political parties and the corporations that own them. I realize ofc that true objectivity is impossible to achieve, but there are degrees, and striving as ardently as possible towards that goal is what really matters.

In Britain the BBC is still a station that where objectivity and integrity is held in high regard, though they're under attack from the politicians. Especially the right who would like nothing better than to close them down entirely, but can't because of BBC's huge popularity among the voters. Instead they resort to sneaky tactics like trying to get them to make less popular and niche programs and make them send them in prime time so as to gradually reduce BBC's viewership and eventually close them down.

Can't go a post without mentioning Norway (guess you could say i'm a patriot, but in a non-nationalistic way) so i'll add we have a station here as well, the NRK, where, like the BBC, accuracy and facts presented with integrity and objectivity is the main goal of the news. Not opinion, pandering, ratings and keeping in the good graces of the power-mongers.

And @Smoka90 That whoever gets elected president will have and effect on other that the US is quite an understatement. It will have an enormous effect on the entire world. USA is still the most powerful country in the world, economically, militarily and diplomatically and whenever something even relatively minor happens over there it will have ramifications in many parts of the world, and if something huge happens, like 9/11 or the financial crisis in 2008 it will change every part of the world immensely.

The Chinese are slowly taking over that role tho, so be careful  you still care about things like human rights and free speech

 

[Kalsima]

@Jellopanda you are spot on! It makes me feel a little bit like an idiot that you know so much about what goes on in the entire world and I feel like I'm so under educated especially since you are right. This election could have a dire outcome depending on who gets elected. The USA is the most powerful country there is and it scares me that a racist misogynistic man who looks up to Putin could be elected and this will have effects on the entire world. It is scary times. I swear every white supremacist and nationalist support Trump. That says a lot right there. I can forsee a hitleresque state. He wants to build a wall againt mexicans entering our country and remember the Muslim Ban? 

I dont know what happened to the news these days, maybe the internet and instant updates im not sure but believe me i was just a kid but i remember as a kid and teenager watching Walter Chronkite and i wasnt alive during WWII during Edward R Murrow days but i know prople looked up to and trusted them. I know everyone in Ameriica did. They are legends and it's sad but I don't think we will ever see that again. 

I cant take twitter anymore or hardly any television at all. I was for Bernie Sanders. It crushed me he cannot become our president. But out of the evils, im sure Hillary is not spotless after years of politics she has to be better than Trump. And the Clinton foundation has helped many thousands of people around the world. Who has Trump helped besides himself, nobody!

 

[Smoka90]

I think I'm backing out of this thread; I think I've made enough people think ill of me as it is, and I don't want to make that any worse, because even though I seem to be at odds with popular opinion here, you're still my friends and I'd literally cry if anyone here disowned me.

I do want to say, though, that I have friends (in 'real life') who are on the left of the political spectrum, who I would never dream of disowning because of their political beliefs. But it seems that sometimes (not every time), they call me horrible names and disown me, saying they never want to talk to me again. The danger there, from the left's point of view, is that the more you (talking in general here, not about the people here) slander, demonise, ostracize and villify the right, the more radical they become. Which is obviously not a good thing.

And people (in general) will sometimes think that I must be a bad, hateful person. I'm not. I've never ever punched anyone in my life, and never want to... When someone shouts at me I quiver and cry. I'm not an angel, but I feel so sh*t and hopeless so much of the time, that I always want to make other nice people as happy as they can be, so they don't have to feel like that. Obviously I wouldn't console a violent criminal, but you know what I mean, I just want to make nice people happy. But when people, in general, not on here as such, 'figure out' my entire personality and morals based on politics, that's a really, really sinking feeling.

I hope this didn't come across as antagonistic. I just wanted to...rant, I guess...don't even know anymore...

*much love*