Wellbutrin

[Angelical]

I want Everyone to take a look at Anti-Depressants. We have all heard of SSRIs causing Women to say God told them to drown their Children, or put their Baby in the Oven, when they stopped taking their SSRI, and I want everyone to understand how some of these Work, and get into the Biochemistry. First, the Theory being used with these Drugs is the “Brain Chemistry Theory”, where we assume that Mental Health issues come from an imbalance of Brain Chemistry. The Theory so being that if Serotonin is Low then a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI) will Raise the Levels of Natural Serotonin, thereby balancing out an otherwise Low Serotonin imbalance. It’s the same Theory as Schizophrenia Medication which does the Opposite and Lowers Dopamine and Serotonin Levels, as Hallucinations come from Activity in those Parts of the Brain. There used to be Anti-Depressants that worked as MAOIs, a lot of Medication was like Seroquel and Xanax or Valium do Today, and they would kind of numb the Emotions, kind of Sedate a person, like Thorazine, the main class was Barbituates and now Benzos are the most Common. Anti-Depressants were MAOIs though. MAOIs work on kind of the Ayahuasca Theory and we can compare all of these SSRIs and Ayahuasca, etc to Peyote also. Ayahuasca contains MAOIs and DMT, Peyote contains just Mescaline. The Brain Balance Theory then usually is being used with Reuptake Inhibitors, not Agonists like Peyote (which not just inhibits Reuptake, but Acts on the Receptors itself). And knowing that these Medicines are working this way, we can add to them, for example Melatonin can be taken at Night, as well as 5-HTP, or L-Dopa, etc, and all of this would expand on the Brain Chemistry Theory.

Anti-Depressants
So let’s get into how the work and make another comparison there are SSRIs, SNRIs and SDNRIs and Amphetamine and Phenidate, I mention those 2, which are Adderal and Ritilin, to make the Point that these Anti-Depressants, particularly the SDNRIs, are “Triple Reuptake Inhibitors”, so they are comparable to Amphetamine, Methyl-Amphetamine (Methamphetamine) and Phenidate and Methylphenidate, but those themselves are Prescription Medications and so are themselves actually Different. Wellbutrin for example, to make the Point, is a Triple Reuptake Inhibitor, does help Suppress Appetite, and also helps with Depression, may be Habit Forming, and could lead to Withdrawals if You stop taking it, but it is not Meth, or Cocaine, it is its own Thing. Then there are the SSRIs which are much weaker, and less Stimulating, as the N in SDNRI and SNRI is “Norepinephrine” and Epinephrine is Adrenaline, like an Epi Pen, so the Norepinephrine Reuptake means Your Adrenal System uses all of its Materials. Comparing Wellbutrin to ADHD Medication, Wellbutrin is more like Strattera than Adderal. Strattera is a Non-Stimulant ADHD Med that works much like Anti-Depressants but was never approved for Treating Depression.

So these should be used by People that need these Things. People with Deficiencies, as like Restless Leg Syndrome where You actually need Dopamine to sleep because of an imbalance, there are People that need this. And I share this so they can find what they need.

And lastly, Mucuna Puriens, Velvet Bean Seeds contain all that You would need to help increase effectiveness of the Medication. Then there is also Chacruna, which contains DMT but is not active without an MAOI, so in a Tea form for example alongside just Mucuna and say Wellbutrin, it would just add to the Serotonin System. There is also Ephedrine, which is a Asthma Medication, but if You mix it with Wellbutrin You could have a Seizure. Ephedrine should be used by itself, or in extremely low Doses. What it does is the same as Methamphetamine or Amphetamine also, except is also does the Releasing Part. Anti-Depressants just let You use all of Your own Supply, Ephedrine Adds to the Supply of Dopamine and Norepinephrine, so it Adds that extra Part. This could cause a Seizure though, so People taking Wellbutrin, Strattera, etc, should be very Careful with Ephedrine because their Brain Chemistry is Changed by the Wellbutrin and the Strattera, and it could be like 5x to 10x as Strong for You, than it would be for someone who was not taking Reuptake inhibitors.

I want Everyone to know about this, because there is:

1. A fear based on Stories of New Mothers killing Babies, that is maybe not such a well founded fear
2. Abuse, so People should know what it’s for and then also know that abuse, like Snorting can cause Seizures, and in many cases is more Painful than other substances.

And lastly, Medications like Remeron and Doxepine could also be added for Night to help with Sleep, unless You like Seroquel which also adds Dopamine. Seroquel in my opinion is just too Drowsy all Day all the Time. But I Hope this Helps some People, and Helps People Help People, as maybe You could suggest something to Help someone You know.

 

[Angelical]

I want to get more Granular with all of this so that Everyone can have as much information as Possible.

First,
Wellbutrin is a Cathinone, it is the only Cathinone that is a Legal Prescription in the United States, meaning that it is an example of what Research Chemicals can be if they are actually Clinically Studied through the Investigational New Drug (IND) Program. In other Words, You can go to Your Doctor and tell them about a Research Chemical and ask them to Prescribe it to You, but You have to have a Really Good reason. Under Donald Trump this was opened up in America under the "Right to Try" Rule, which was Basically saying "A Person who is Dying of Cancer, or another Fatal Illness, may try whatever the want". And being a Cathinone, that means Wellbutrin is related to the Substances in the Khat Plant, as well as Mephedrone (Meow Meow), etc.

I would actually compare it also to Things like bk-MDMA, meaning that it acts Different for Different People and can cause Seizures and Everything. MDMA is Ecstasy, and Ecstasy has pretty normal Dosages person to person, with similar effects in each Person, but substances like bk-MDMA are much more varied. Different Dosages, and even the same Dosage, cause a Range of effects for Different People. We could say that Wellbutrin is kind of Closer to these Molecules because of the Structure.

This shows the Family of Molecules, with the Cathinones on the Right and the Amphetamines on the left. They are all Very Similar.





This is Wellbutrin, and we could say that the Reason people are having Seizures is because of that weird Structure hanging off the bottom Right hand side, all that extra is what makes it a little more Dangerous than Cathinone or Amphetamine. But this is also why they Prescribe it. This Dangling Structure on the Right make it:
1. Hard to Synthesize, so it could be Patented in the first place
2. Seems to have taken away the Dopamine and Serotonin and Norepinephrine and Oxytocin releasing Effect of the rest of the Family of Molecules, making Bupropion (Wellbutrin) more of a Reuptake inhibitor instead of a Drug of Abuse


Some People say that the way Bupropion (Wellbutrin) Works is not by making You Happy Necessarily, regarding the Anti-Depressant Prescription, but instead makes Other Activities more Enjoyable. It Blocks the Reuptake of Dopamine, so instead of Adding Dopamine it lets YOU Add the Dopamine with Activities, and the Activities become more Enjoyable as the Dopamine is Blocked from being Reuptaken. A way to better understand this is by comparing the Actions of Reuptake inhibitors to Esterase inhibitors. Esterase is something in Your Body that Eats something, for example Acetylcholine Esterase is in Your Body breaking apart Acetylcholine, Acetylcholine Esterase goes around Your Brain looking for Acetylcholine, and anything that it finds it breaks it down into Other Molecules. If You take an Acetylcholine Esterase inhibitor it will stop the Esterase and Your Body will have more Acetylcholine. Reuptake inhibitors work much the same way, except they Block the Reuptake. Blocking the Reuptake of Dopamine means that any Dopamine in Your Brain has to be used and does not get "Reuptaken" into the Bloodstream and Urinary Tract. It gets used in the Brain. So the Anti-Depressant Effect comes from that.

CYP2B6 is the primary enzyme that metabolizes bupropion into hydroxybupropion. Bupropion is therefore a potent inhibitor of CYP2D6 activity. Atomoxetine (Strattera) is metabolized primarily through the CYP2D6 enzymatic pathway. This is why Mixing the Molecules becomes more Dangerous. CYP2D6 is known to Break Down about 25% of Drugs on the Market. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110863017300228

So what Happens when You start Mixing Things like Wellbutrin and Strattera is they make each Other 5x to 10x Stronger, because Your Enzymes are inhibited, and therefor they do not Breakdown what is in the Blood Stream and the Brain. And so, if You took a Time Release Capsule of Wellbutrin, then decided to Snort of Strattera for example, You might be ok, but You increase Your Blood Levels, the same as Blood Alcohol content, and because the Enzymes don't Break it Down, it stays in Your Bloodstream. So then if You take more Strattera, the First dose hasn't left Your Bloodstream yet, and You might end up Overdosing much easier. This is the Danger with Wellbutrin, it is all about the Blood Levels. This is how People have Seizures from Overdosing on Wellbutrin, their Blood Concentration gets too high. It's not about how much they took over the Day necessarily, it is about how much they have in their Blood at any given moment. It also then causes Other Substances to build up in the Blood, by inhibiting the CYP2D6 Enzyme.

I just wanted to add all of this for Harm Reduction Purposes.

But because of the Dangers, and the Success of Wellbutrin as an Anti-Depressant, and Smoking Cessation Aid, and Diet Pill, etc, there may be Merit in looking at Research Chemicals in this Family for Clinical Studies, and I wrote this so maybe even some Clinicians and Doctors and Scientists can Recognize the Family of Molecules here, and maybe Create the next Substance that is better than Wellbutrin (maybe less Dangerous).

I know what I know, because I have been Studying Sasha Shulgin's Research since I was a Child. I always thought he was kind of like the Reason People even took Research Chemicals, as a kid I thought it was all working kind of how Sasha Shulgin would want, but I found that Researchers didn't even know who he was. Then Fentanyl and Br-Fentanyl, etc, Flooded the Research Chemical Market and I watched the entire Field be Destroyed. Where People were taking 5-MeO-DMT and 2C-I, they switched to Fentanyl, because it was still available when the Others were made Illegal. But I want everyone to understand these Things the way Sasha Shulgin understood these Things. He Writes specifically about this Family of Molecules (Phenethylamines), in his Book PIHKAL, and I suggest Everyone Order a Copy of the Book.

PiHKAL - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BraveLittleToaster]

I want to get more Granular with all of this so that Everyone can have as much information as Possible.

First,
Wellbutrin is a Cathinone, it is the only Cathinone that is a Legal Prescription in the United States, meaning that it is an example of what Research Chemicals can be if they are actually Clinically Studied through the Investigational New Drug (IND) Program. In other Words, You can go to Your Doctor and tell them about a Research Chemical and ask them to Prescribe it to You, but You have to have a Really Good reason. Under Donald Trump this was opened up in America under the "Right to Try" Rule, which was Basically saying "A Person who is Dying of Cancer, or another Fatal Illness, may try whatever the want". And being a Cathinone, that means Wellbutrin is related to the Substances in the Khat Plant, as well as Mephedrone (Meow Meow), etc.

I would actually compare it also to Things like bk-MDMA, meaning that it acts Different for Different People and can cause Seizures and Everything. MDMA is Ecstasy, and Ecstasy has pretty normal Dosages person to person, with similar effects in each Person, but substances like bk-MDMA are much more varied. Different Dosages, and even the same Dosage, cause a Range of effects for Different People. We could say that Wellbutrin is kind of Closer to these Molecules because of the Structure.

This shows the Family of Molecules, with the Cathinones on the Right and the Amphetamines on the left. They are all Very Similar.

View attachment 4925



This is Wellbutrin, and we could say that the Reason people are having Seizures is because of that weird Structure hanging off the bottom Right hand side, all that extra is what makes it a little more Dangerous than Cathinone or Amphetamine. But this is also why they Prescribe it. This Dangling Structure on the Right make it:
1. Hard to Synthesize, so it could be Patented in the first place
2. Seems to have taken away the Dopamine and Serotonin and Norepinephrine and Oxytocin releasing Effect of the rest of the Family of Molecules, making Bupropion (Wellbutrin) more of a Reuptake inhibitor instead of a Drug of Abuse
View attachment 4926

Some People say that the way Bupropion (Wellbutrin) Works is not by making You Happy Necessarily, regarding the Anti-Depressant Prescription, but instead makes Other Activities more Enjoyable. It Blocks the Reuptake of Dopamine, so instead of Adding Dopamine it lets YOU Add the Dopamine with Activities, and the Activities become more Enjoyable as the Dopamine is Blocked from being Reuptaken. A way to better understand this is by comparing the Actions of Reuptake inhibitors to Esterase inhibitors. Esterase is something in Your Body that Eats something, for example Acetylcholine Esterase is in Your Body breaking apart Acetylcholine, Acetylcholine Esterase goes around Your Brain looking for Acetylcholine, and anything that it finds it breaks it down into Other Molecules. If You take an Acetylcholine Esterase inhibitor it will stop the Esterase and Your Body will have more Acetylcholine. Reuptake inhibitors work much the same way, except they Block the Reuptake. Blocking the Reuptake of Dopamine means that any Dopamine in Your Brain has to be used and does not get "Reuptaken" into the Bloodstream and Urinary Tract. It gets used in the Brain. So the Anti-Depressant Effect comes from that.

CYP2B6 is the primary enzyme that metabolizes bupropion into hydroxybupropion. Bupropion is therefore a potent inhibitor of CYP2D6 activity. Atomoxetine (Strattera) is metabolized primarily through the CYP2D6 enzymatic pathway. This is why Mixing the Molecules becomes more Dangerous. CYP2D6 is known to Break Down about 25% of Drugs on the Market. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110863017300228

So what Happens when You start Mixing Things like Wellbutrin and Strattera is they make each Other 5x to 10x Stronger, because Your Enzymes are inhibited, and therefor they do not Breakdown what is in the Blood Stream and the Brain. And so, if You took a Time Release Capsule of Wellbutrin, then decided to Snort of Strattera for example, You might be ok, but You increase Your Blood Levels, the same as Blood Alcohol content, and because the Enzymes don't Break it Down, it stays in Your Bloodstream. So then if You take more Strattera, the First dose hasn't left Your Bloodstream yet, and You might end up Overdosing much easier. This is the Danger with Wellbutrin, it is all about the Blood Levels. This is how People have Seizures from Overdosing on Wellbutrin, their Blood Concentration gets too high. It's not about how much they took over the Day necessarily, it is about how much they have in their Blood at any given moment. It also then causes Other Substances to build up in the Blood, by inhibiting the CYP2D6 Enzyme.

I just wanted to add all of this for Harm Reduction Purposes.

But because of the Dangers, and the Success of Wellbutrin as an Anti-Depressant, and Smoking Cessation Aid, and Diet Pill, etc, there may be Merit in looking at Research Chemicals in this Family for Clinical Studies, and I wrote this so maybe even some Clinicians and Doctors and Scientists can Recognize the Family of Molecules here, and maybe Create the next Substance that is better than Wellbutrin (maybe less Dangerous).

I know what I know, because I have been Studying Sasha Shulgin's Research since I was a Child. I always thought he was kind of like the Reason People even took Research Chemicals, as a kid I thought it was all working kind of how Sasha Shulgin would want, but I found that Researchers didn't even know who he was. Then Fentanyl and Br-Fentanyl, etc, Flooded the Research Chemical Market and I watched the entire Field be Destroyed. Where People were taking 5-MeO-DMT and 2C-I, they switched to Fentanyl, because it was still available when the Others were made Illegal. But I want everyone to understand these Things the way Sasha Shulgin understood these Things. He Writes specifically about this Family of Molecules (Phenethylamines), in his Book PIHKAL, and I suggest Everyone Order a Copy of the Book.

PiHKAL - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Very informative. I had no idea Welbutrin was a cathinone. You said they use it as a diet drug too? I thought that was one of the anti-depressants that made everyone who took it fat and gain a lot of weight.

 

[Vastemptyflo]

Very informative. I had no idea Welbutrin was a cathinone. You said they use it as a diet drug too? I thought that was one of the anti-depressants that made everyone who took it fat and gain a lot of weight.

Nope. Zoloft made me do that. I took both Zoloft and Wellbutrin. I stopped taking the Zoloft, and now I have like zero appetite, which isn’t good either. (I also just got over opioid withdrawal too. It sucked but I’m starting to feel more normal again.) Wellbutrin is something a lot of people that are afraid of gaining weight from an antidepressant take so they don’t. I don’t find it nearly as good as the Zoloft for depression, though.

 

[BraveLittleToaster]

Nope. Zoloft made me do that. I took both Zoloft and Wellbutrin. I stopped taking the Zoloft, and now I have like zero appetite, which isn’t good either. (I also just got over opioid withdrawal too. It sucked but I’m starting to feel more normal again.) Wellbutrin is something a lot of people that are afraid of gaining weight from an antidepressant take so they don’t. I don’t find it nearly as good as the Zoloft for depression, though.

Good for you on kicking the opis. I’ve kicked over 14 times for more than a month, but this last time with the Fent I couldn’t just switch to subs like usual and do a 2 or 4 week taper. I tried so many times but subs just couldn’t cut it. I ended up getting on methadone and that’s making me gain weight like crazy and I’ve never had any trouble whatsoever not gaining weight.

Doctors have been trying to get me to take antidepressants since I was a teenager but I’ve been an addict for so long and I figured the last thing I need is another drug to be dependent on. Lately though I’ve been thinking about trying them. I have no ambition or motivation.

 

[DrinkingDrano]

Did you guys know that Wellbutrin, in addition to being formulated by itself, is also part of a new antidepressant that is a mix of it and FUCKING DXM. Yes, the one teenagers robotrip on.

This is it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan/bupropion

Turns out DXM is an SSRI and SNRI, oddly enough, but it gets metabolized too quickly to be of much use (it gets converted into the NMDA antagonist dextrorphan that fucks you up).

That's why they combined it with buproprion. Buproprion - as mentioned in this thread - is a strong CYP2D6 inhibitor, and it drastically slows DXM metabolism, keeping it around long enough to have a clinical effect.

I assume the price will be *thousands* of dollars, though I really, really, really hope doctors just prescribe generic bupropion for a few bucks and tell patients to hit up CVS for the DXM. Congrats, now you'd be a generic pharmaceutical company

 

[Gracie5]

I know someone using this. It’s a $10 copay. It works well for him, but I told him the same thing as you explained.

 

[Angelical]

Very informative. I had no idea Welbutrin was a cathinone. You said they use it as a diet drug too? I thought that was one of the anti-depressants that made everyone who took it fat and gain a lot of weight.

Yeah it’s a Cathinone, and the Weight Loss Formulation is called “Contrave”. It’s meant to hit the Reward Centers in the Brain and replace Binge Eating as a Reward System.

 

[Gracie5]

So I have my own Wellbutrin XR story. It’s the only anti-depressant that helps my anxiety. I can’t honestly say if it helps with weight loss. I have lost about 40 lbs since I started using it over 5 years ago, but I can’t say they are related. It definitely does not cause weight gain, as other drugs used for this purpose.
It can be compounded with extra low dose Naltoxene to make a weight loss/anti anxiety/fibromyalgia drug. Insurance typically won’t cover that.
My DD told me that my brain likes Dopamine, which is why it works for me. The other anti depressants contain Serotonin, which my brain does not like. (Some of you may know which types of us here may respond better to dopamine!)
There’s a blood test to determine if you process drugs properly. When I took it, it broke down about ten particular diseases and the drugs that work best for your liver. You can have genetic abnormalities that affect this.
So Wellbutrin works for me very well. I do not process drugs correctly and have a heterozygous disorder, so Wellbutrin not being processed too quickly helps (thanks @Angelical for sharing your research)!

 

[DrinkingDrano]

So I have my own Wellbutrin XR story. It’s the only anti-depressant that helps my anxiety. I can’t honestly say if it helps with weight loss. I have lost about 40 lbs since I started using it over 5 years ago, but I can’t say they are related. It definitely does not cause weight gain, as other drugs used for this purpose.
It can be compounded with extra low dose Naltoxene to make a weight loss/anti anxiety/fibromyalgia drug. Insurance typically won’t cover that.
My DD told me that my brain likes Dopamine, which is why it works for me. The other anti depressants contain Serotonin, which my brain does not like.
@Angelical for sharing your research!

Thank you for sharing such a positive experience! My psychiatrist thinks Wellbutrin is the perfect med for me - I have learned helplessness fatigue and depression, GAD, lots of other stuff, and Wellbutrin is eerie in how specific it is at treating those.

But... it's associated more strongly than any other antidepressant with hair loss, and I already have steadily increasing loss at the crown, plus thinning elsewhere, even without Wellbutrin. I just got divorced and my ego/confidence would be annihilated were my hair loss to accelerate.

So for now I won't take it. I need to get on the hair growth treatments and then Wellbutrin, and maybe a new, better me awaits

 

[Gracie5]

Thank you for sharing @DrinkingDrano. I didn’t know about hair loss! It has not affected me that way. I tried it because it worked so well for my dad, who originally used it to stop smoking. He didn’t experience hair loss either, but he had very thick hair. Yes, it also helped with energy too
Best of luck to you in your work toward a better you!

 

[Angelical]

So I have my own Wellbutrin XR story. It’s the only anti-depressant that helps my anxiety. I can’t honestly say if it helps with weight loss. I have lost about 40 lbs since I started using it over 5 years ago, but I can’t say they are related. It definitely does not cause weight gain, as other drugs used for this purpose.
It can be compounded with extra low dose Naltoxene to make a weight loss/anti anxiety/fibromyalgia drug. Insurance typically won’t cover that.
My DD told me that my brain likes Dopamine, which is why it works for me. The other anti depressants contain Serotonin, which my brain does not like. (Some of you may know which types of us here may respond better to dopamine!)
There’s a blood test to determine if you process drugs properly. When I took it, it broke down about ten particular diseases and the drugs that work best for your liver. You can have genetic abnormalities that affect this.
So Wellbutrin works for me very well. I do not process drugs correctly and have a heterozygous disorder, so Wellbutrin not being processed too quickly helps (thanks @Angelical for sharing your research)!

A lot of Medical Science in the Future will be going towards the understanding of Enzymes, and then using that to cause different Drug interactions.

The best example would be this Theory that Dr. Alexander “Sasha” Shulgin wrote about, which is (as quoted below) that the Liver would Aminize various Molecules, so Safrole (Sassafras), and Sesimol (Sesame Seeds), and Anathole (Anise Seeds) and all kinds of Phenyl Compounds could be Aminized, and would be like Amphetamine or Methylenedioxymethylamphetamine (MDMA), with the “Amine” at the End, or like Mescaline. But he is proven wrong about that route, which is now available on Wikipedia and also then is a great example, because it talks about how they are not Aminized into what Dr. Shulgin thought they would be, but they do become other compounds.

Dr. Sasha Shulgin: "The major essential oil from that spice is myristicin, and it is the easiest source of MMDA. It has been reported that the passage of this oil through the liver of a rabbit will generate MMDA in that animal." Dr. Sasha Shulgin: "the synthetic intermediate 1-allyl-2,3,4,5-tetramethoxybenzene is one of the ten essential oils, the amination step from our hypothetical reaction in the human liver would make TA one of the so-called Ten Essential Amphetamines." (Written in the 90s)

(From Wikipedia) OBSERVATIONS: Several allylbenzenes have been proven to form up to 3 alkaloid metabolites after ingestion by several animals. They do not form amphetamines in vivo as has been speculated in the past. The alkaloids detected in animal urine are tertiary aminopropiophenones of 3 possible subtypes: dimethylamines, piperidines, and pyrrolidines. The allylbenzene elemicin has been proven to form all 3 different alkaloid metabolites after ingestion in animals by analyzing urine using gas-liquid chromatography and chemical ionization mass spectrometry. Safrole is also proven to form all three alkaloid metabolites after ingestion. Myristicin appears to only form piperidines and pyrrolidines. Dimethylamines of myristicin have not been detected. Allylbenzene, from which all allylbenzenes are derived, forms piperidine and dimethylamine alkaloids. Propenylbenzene and its derivatives (asarone, anethole, etc.) do not form alkaloid metabolites.

This is why some Medicine says “Do not take with Grapefruit Juice”, because of the Metabolization by Enzymes, the Doctors have Pill Formulations sometimes that are 2 Grams and 7 Grams, so when it gets to Your Stomach and gets Destroyed, You can still get 100 mg or whatever, this is called “Bioavailability”. But then if You take something that inhibits or activates these CYP450 Enzymes, then the whole 7 Grams may become Bioavailable and Kill You. The Grapefruit Juice being the inhibitor/activator.

There are Anecdotes about how this Work, a guy on the Internet was reading about Nutmeg on like the NCBI Pages online and he found the stuff about how the 2 Molecules in Nutmeg interacted and he created what is called “Oilahuasca”. Some Claim he did it to Sell Perfumes (Plant Oils), but there is Really something to the Science. He compares the Effects of Various Molecules to MDMA or Mescaline but says he never took either one so is not the best person to compare them. But this is the Future of Medicine.

 

[Angelical]

Thank you for sharing such a positive experience! My psychiatrist thinks Wellbutrin is the perfect med for me - I have learned helplessness fatigue and depression, GAD, lots of other stuff, and Wellbutrin is eerie in how specific it is at treating those.

But... it's associated more strongly than any other antidepressant with hair loss, and I already have steadily increasing loss at the crown, plus thinning elsewhere, even without Wellbutrin. I just got divorced and my ego/confidence would be annihilated were my hair loss to accelerate.

So for now I won't take it. I need to get on the hair growth treatments and then Wellbutrin, and maybe a new, better me awaits

Take L-Methylfolate or the even stronger Formulation I forget the name of, it still has “Methylfolate” in the name.

 

[Gracie5]

Take L-Methylfolate or the even stronger Formulation I forget the name of, it still has “Methylfolate” in the name.

It’s the better form of Folic Acid. It’s in B12 and also in daily vitamins.

 

[Angelical]

It’s the better form of Folic Acid. It’s in B12 and also in daily vitamins.

So, there are Actually Mental Health benefits of L-Methyfolate and the other Stronger Forms. Foalte is not extremely Bioavailable, there is a more Bioavailanle form of Folate, I forget what it is called but there already was one. Then L-MethylFolate and the Newer one are even more Bioavailable. Like the Difference between Morphine and Heroine, because of the simple Addition of the Acetyl to the Morphine, Heroine is just Acetyl-Morphine. Also like Alpha-GPC compared to Pure Choline. Choline is the actual Substance You want, but it is not Bioavailable, so if You take Alpha-GPC it will provide a more Bioavailable Form of Choline.

L-MethylFolate and the Newer one, are like Alpha-GPC but for Folate.

And there are actual Mental Health benefits, including Depression, but then another Strange one. There is actually a connection between some Forms of Schizophrenia and Hair Loss, here are the Studies:

L-MethylFolate and Schizophrenia

Biochemical, physiologic, and clinical effects of L-methylfolate in schizophrenia: A randomized controlled trial - PMC

Folic acid supplementation confers modest benefit in schizophrenia, but its effectiveness is influenced by common genetic variants in the folate pathway that hinder conversion to its active form. We examined physiologic and clinical effects of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Biochemical, physiological and clinical effects of l-methylfolate in schizophrenia: a randomized controlled trial - PubMed

Folic acid supplementation confers modest benefit in schizophrenia, but its effectiveness is influenced by common genetic variants in the folate pathway that hinder conversion to its active form. We examined physiological and clinical effects of l-methylfolate, the fully reduced and bioactive...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

L-MethyFolate and Depression

L-methylfolate as adjunctive therapy for SSRI-resistant major depression: results of two randomized, double-blind, parallel-sequential trials - PubMed

Adjunctive L-methylfolate at 15 mg/day may constitute an effective, safe, and relatively well tolerated treatment strategy for patients with major depressive disorder who have a partial response or no response to SSRIs.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Assessing Effects of l-Methylfolate in Depression Management: Results of a Real-World Patient Experience Trial - PMC

Objective: l-Methylfolate has been shown in retrospective and prospective studies to enhance antidepressant response. The aim of this study was to prospectively assess change in depression severity and medication satisfaction in patients prescribed ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So it actually adds Folate to Your Body in Psychoactive Levels. There is some kind of Science behind Schizophrenics having lower Folate Levels in their Blood.

But then also, this was brought up because of the Hair Loss Discussion. So just to end on that note, L-MethylFolate is good for Preventing Hair Loss, so much so that it also seems to be Preventative for Schizophrenia that develops with Hair Loss.

I Personally see this as all Connected to something that we can Identify in a Couple other Places and it actually gets Spiritual, First Jesus was 32-33 when he was Killed, he was kind of at his Peak at that Time. Something was Happening, to his Mind and the Connection he had to Humans around him, and the Tribes of People, the Temples, etc, and this is also kind of Identifiable in the Cesars who are kind of like Animals running around doing Things getting Support here and there for actions they have taken, all the while kind of putting together an Entire Empire under their Actions. This is kind of about Humans being the Apex Predator, the top of the Food Chain. And there is the Age of Majority, 18 or 21 in most Places, but then there is 30 something, when the Brain actually Solidifies and the Skull has those wavy Cracks in it. When Your Skull actually Settles. And the Founding Fathers Recognized it, they made it the Age Limit for Presidents, they have to be 35.

But then again, the Evidence that brought this up, is the Schizophrenia that Develops with Hair Loss. And I am saying I think that that is an Example also.

 

[Gracie5]

There are 3 types folate. They are of course all folate, but each is slightly different, with methyl-folate being the most common. I have used a different one, but can’t quite remember what it was and can’t quickly find them.
If you are anemic, you often are deficient in b12. Folate is simply natural folic acid. If one can’t metabolize folic acid it builds up in the liver and your body can’t clear it. That’s when a naturopath recommends folate. The most common type of b12 with folate dissolves under the tongue.
Folic acid is also prescribed with auto-immune medication, to help with side effects. If one can’t metabolize folic acid, folate is instead prescribed.
The schizophrenia example is very interesting to me. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing all of this @Angelical.
The connections you have found are fascinating.
Folic acid is prescribed to women during pregnancy in prenatal vitamins to prevent neural tube defects. So what does one do to find out if she can’t metabolize folic acid? First she would need testing for the MTHFR genetic defect. It’s a quick mouth swab. There was some talk about autism being related to mothers being unable to process folic acid, having it build up in toxic amounts, thus causing autism in babies.
Most doctors aren’t aware of this. Seeing holistic practitioners can be very useful.

 

[Angelical]

There are 3 types folate. They are of course all folate, but each is slightly different, with methyl-folate being the most common. I have used a different one, but can’t quite remember what it was and can’t quickly find them.
If you are anemic, you often are deficient in b12. Folate is simply natural folic acid. If one can’t metabolize folic acid it builds up in the liver and your body can’t clear it. That’s when a naturopath recommends folate. The most common type of b12 with folate dissolves under the tongue.
Folic acid is also prescribed with auto-immune medication, to help with side effects. If one can’t metabolize folic acid, folate is instead prescribed.
The schizophrenia example is very interesting to me. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing all of this @Angelical.
The connections you have found are fascinating.
Folic acid is prescribed to women during pregnancy in prenatal vitamins to prevent neural tube defects. So what does one do to find out if she can’t metabolize folic acid? First she would need testing for the MTHFR genetic defect. It’s a quick mouth swab. There was some talk about autism being related to mothers being unable to process folic acid, having it build up in toxic amounts, thus causing autism in babies.
Most doctors aren’t aware of this. Seeing holistic practitioners can be very useful.

I just did some searches and found the New one I was thinking of, maybe You took it also. It was 5-MTHF.

And Yeah, there are a lot of Things that could be called the Nootropic Field of Research and Doctors don’t really know about most of the stuff, but like Body Builders do, like Steroid Dealers and Users and Others. Like GNC People get into it, but the Doctors wait for Clinical Studies and then some. Some of it is like Russian and Japanese Medicine. Like Picamilon which is now Banned in the United States, it’s a Russian Headache Medicine that Works by getting Niacin (which increases Bloodflow by expanding Blood Vessels) across the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB) so it increases Bloodflow in the Brain getting rid of Headaches. It’s Illegal because it was being used to Treat and Cure, but is in the United States not FDA Approved as Medicine. Tryptophan has gone back and forth in Legality.

But there is a lot that Doctors don’t know. Same with Herbs, many Pills are Herbs made into Patents, for example Benztropine is Atropine made into a Patented Substance by adding a Benzene Ring. Atropine works the same way, it’s an Anti-Spasmatic in the 1mg range. You could chew a Datura Leaf or smoke it for example. And a lot of Herbal Remedies work that way. Earlier in this Thread I mentioned Oilahuasca which also gets to that Subject, in the context of Enzymes and Breaking Down Substances in the Liver and Stomach.

 

[Angelical]

Btw, on the Subject of Oilahuasca. There is a Spell that can be Found in many SpellBooks, and it raises a Question related to Enzymes and Oilahuasca.

The Spell involves killing a Cat, and using its Fat to brew up a kind of Cream to rub on Your Body. You also would need a Wolf Pelt.

You use the Cat Fat and boil it in a certain kind of Pot, maybe Iron or Copper. Then You add Poppies, and various Herbs that kind of make Sense, because this is a Spell to turn the caster into a Werewolf. But strangely one of the Ingredients is Parsley. And the Question raised is “Why Parsley?”. And I believe the Answer is now found in the use of Parsley or Hungarian Parsley is Oilahuasca Mixtures. And whoever made the Spell had Discovered in whatever way, that there was an Effect. And only now are Science and Medicine now also getting into this.

 

[Angelical]

Also, to again expand on the Information related to Enzymes and even Magic Spells.

I wrote the Text Quoted below for a Book I’m Writing, I Wrote it 2 or 3 Years ago, but it can Help People understand the Concepts in this Thread, and thereby their own Bodily Functions.

This can be summed up in the concepts of Induction and Inhibition via Anti- Oxidants and similar Natural Materials, to the Induction and Inhibition being of things Consumed by the person who is now Inducing and Inhibiting their Enzymes. Induction is Inducing, as in “Induce Vomiting”, meaning “To make you Vomit”, so Induce is Activate, when you Induce something you are Activating it. Inhibition is to Inhibit, this is best compared to today what is known as being “Disinhibited” from Alcohol, so Dishibition from Alcohol, because Alcohol Disinhibits you, that is kind of like Induce, so Inhibit is the opposite. Inhibit then blocks things. We can actually then make a direct correlation to Alcohol with Vanilla and Cinammon, both of which Inhibit Glutathione production in the Liver, Glutithione breaks down Alcohol, so when you Inhibit your Glutithione by consuming Vanilla and Cinammon, you are stopping your Liver from breaking down the Alcohl and now it will last longer and be stronger than if your body was full of Glutithione, and you can up your Glutithione by eating Tumeric. So you could choose when to be extremely drunk, and when to sober up, by combining your Alcohol with Cinnamon/Vanilla, and then later Tumeric, or taking Turmeric capsules later. The focus of the Inhibition and Induction is the CYP450 Enzymes and those related to it, CYP450 being Cytochrome P450, to then cause your body to break down Materials diferently so that they cross the Blood Brain Barrier, these being things that are commonly encountered in your Day to Day, and Year to Year life, as in Holiday Seasonings, and other things like Eggnog, etc. but are diferent when your Enzymes are Inhibited and Induced. There are also things that need to be looked out for because there are side Efects such as Cheese Syndrome, Cheese contains large amounts of Tyrosine which is then broken down Diferently when MAOIs are ingested, this can make Dairy or Chocolate Poisonous, or at least cause a bad Headache. So there is are also Dietary Restrictions associated with these Rituals.

Now, because some reading this will be in disbelief, they will make claims that what is being said here is a person who has the beneft of all our modern technology and relativaty, that because we have Books, and Internet in our Time, that to say this is to look back and to imply that these people had the knowledge we have, simply because we understand it now (even with the Evidence of us having gotten it from an Amazonian Tribe). So I want to prove that this is false, that for Hundreds, and Thousands of Years, Human beings have been making Brews and Concoctions to focus on the Liver, and various Enzymatic functions of the body. First we can look at Sho-Saiko-To, a Chinese and Japanese 7 Herb Blend focused on Liver Function, these Mixtures varying slightly place to place based on available material, but the primary ingredients being Bupleurum Root (Chai Hu), Pinellia Tuber (Ban Xia), Scutellaria Root (Huang Qin), Ginseng (Ren Shen), Jujube (Da Zao), Licorice (Gan Cao) and Ginger (Sheng Jiang). And again, if we look at the Chukchi people, what we are seeing is that Ancient People had the ability to preform Animal Clinical Studies. Today we say “Should we use Monkies?”, “Is it ok to test Makeup on Rabbits?”, they had the ability to do all of this also, the Chukchki people used the Carribou which they also ate, Labored, and clothed themselves with. We can also see this as happening Naturally, because the Carribou may eat the Mushroom themselves and then the Chukchi are still watching that, and then Collecting Urine, which is a whole operation of waiting for this Animal to then Urinate after consuming the Mushroom. And then we can see the same thing in if Birds eat of a certain Berry, and they die, Humans can then assume that they should not eat from that Tree because it is dangerous to do so, without having Caged and made a decision to test the Birds. We can also then see that in the West there were Enzymatic Concoctions, a very popular one being Theives Oil, and if we wonder “Why did they use all of these Plants, instead of Just Alcohol?”, we start to understand something that the Ancient People understood. Theives Oil was created During the Plague in Europe, and it was used by Pitpockets who wanted to go and Pitpocket Dead Bodies during the Plague. They would get like a Bandana, or other type of cloth, and soak it in Theives Oil to then cover their Mouth and face to go out and take things from Bodies, also covering their Hands, Skin and all other Clothing as well as possible to protect all other parts of the body.

Continued in the next Post…

 

[Angelical]

I could only post 10,000 Characters so I had to put this as 2 Posts:

This is like using Bleach, or Alcohol, but then why not just use one of those, as creating a Hydrolate (Distilled as Alcohol, called Absolute or Otto) and Hydrolyzed (Broken Down as Tea) from these other Plants is just as Labor Intensive as Alcohol, maybe it is cheaper, but there are actual benefts. And for evidence of this knowledge, we can look to the Bird Face Mask of the Plague Era, flled with Flowers, Herbs and Spices which would protect the person wearing this Bird Face Plague Suit, and this fact is retained in the Song “Ring around the Rosie”, in the next line “Pockets full of Posies”, this is because various Flowers were known to have properties which would protect you from the Bacteria. The Theives Oil was originally made by Spice and Perfume Merchants who were no longer making money during the Plague, so they combined their Cloves, Lemon, Cinnamon, Eucalyptus and Rosemary, to be applied to the Hands, Ears, Feet, Temples and Clothes by Pitpockets or themselves for that purpose, and then also other people as the practice grew, retaining the name “Theives Oil”. We can then see Theives Oil itself as part of the Larger Practice of Perfuming, and what is idenitfyable today in the Liquor industry as Bitters. Bitters are Liquors like Jeigermeister which contains Licorice, this is a commonly known type of Bitters in America today, but there are many others and they have many other Ingredients. We can see this as similar to the nearly Mythical Absinthe in American Culture, a drink that is simply made from Wormwood, used to contain Opium, and is now considered something of a Mythical Beverage with a Magical History, when it was made recently during the World Wars, it is not Ancient. Absinthe was made to kill Worms that infected Soldiers of the British Empire during Wars while Colonizing other Countries, hence the name Wormwood in the main Ingredient, and this is what makes it Green. This is then combined with other ingredients to create what today we know as Absinthe, including a Spoon type Blade tool that is used to pour Alcohol over Sugar Cubes while making the Brew, in order to add sugar and Ritual to the consumption. This is what Bitters are, and there are many which contain many Herbs, not just one or two, but Several, and we can then further Identify Bitters as the Origins of our own Soda Industry, the Syrup in Coca-Cola, Pepsi and Dr. Pepper are then just like the Absinthe Mixture with Sugar, premade with Syrup, and Dr. Pepper has 23 Ingredients, a very good example of a Bitters Recipe, 23 Ingredients, not just 1 or 2, and in the Bitters Industry in some Countries these recipes are gaurded under Penalty of Death, and Soda is “A Spoon Full of Sugar helps the Medicine go Down”, as Mary Poppins said. We also now see this in Modern Energy Drinks, and other evolutions coming from the Bottling of Beverages in general. But now people can begin to look at these things from the perspective of Bitters recipes, rather than entering a Sugar Market like Candy in a Bottle to be noticed next to the big brands. Because that is not the Point.

If we then look at Ubulawu, a Mixture retained by the Xhosa and Bantu people which represents some of the Earliest Human consumption of Herbs for the purpose of Dreaming, we can see a Mixture that is very interesting. As of the time of this being written no one has gone through and profled the Herbal Ubulawu Constituents, they are simply unstudied by Modern means. What we know is that the Silene Capensis Flower, now renamed Silene Undulata, Root is used and contains some kind of Saponin. This is the Main ingredient, and there is a special 3 pronged fork that is used to froth this up by putting the fork/spoon, between the palms of the hands and rolling it, so that the 3 Prongs fower through the Water and froth it up, proving that there is some king of Saponin in the Root of this Flower. This is then combined with other Ingredients when the Brew is made, and the Froth is then eaten from the top of the Ubulawu Brew (This mixture can be a Variety of Silene and Dianthus species of Plants). We can then also look to Hottentot Tea, which includes Imphepho (or other Helichrysum varieties) such as Buchu leaves and other Herbs such as Plecostachys Sepyllifolia and Synptolepsis Kirkki to promote Dreaming and Dream Recall. Imphepho itself being an Anscestor calling Herb, used in some Regions of Africa like White Sage is in America, but even to a greater extent where large Bundles are burned, Pound after Pound, or Kilo after Kilo, to call Anscestors into the area, similar to White Sage; all to Purify the space for Ritual use, or other purposes, White Sage being used this way being a Native America Practice that has now become popularized in American Culture.
We can now look even deeper into this, by looking at the Gods of Cures, Poisons, and Divination. When we look to Hinduism, we see Rudra, the God of Poisons and Cures, the Shining One, or the Roarer, and the force that is Poison Berries or Leaves that would kill you in the Wilderness when Ingested, that Death would be a Death by Rudra, or a Bear in the Woods, any of these Deaths would be Deaths come by Rudra, he is the God that Brings Diseases and Viruses which bring Disease, but he is also the God you pray to asking to lift the Disease, Rudra is the God of Cures, he is the God who plays with Poisons and Cures, and he can been seen as sending Poison arrows out causing Disease and Death, and then being prayed to to remove them. And as horrible as all of this Sounds, this is just like Yaweh, Yaweh is a God who may kill anyone at anytime, and in prayer to him by children it is said “Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my Soul to keep, and if I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my Soul to take”.