Sales-Meds.com

[WillyK]

Same thing I heard. And there is no evidence of their existence. Why fake a pill that doesn't exist?

 

[ally]

Same thing I heard. And there is no evidence of their existence. Why fake a pill that doesn't exist?

Its probably much cheaper to make them than to buy real ones. meaning, more room for profits.

 

[WillyK]

I mean, why not make a fake that actually looks like something that people want? Not some wildly colored non-existent thing.

 

[Jewbacca]

I mean, why not make a fake that actually looks like something that people want? Not some wildly colored non-existent thing.

That's a great question. One would think that if someone were going to counterfeit meds, they would be copies of actual meds. My guess is that by creating a phony pill that doesn't in fact exist an true form, they're putting something on the market with nothing to compare it to. Experience people like us are going to ask the right questions before making purchases, and aren't the mark they're looking for anyway. As someone else had stated earlier, they're looking for that percentage of customers who'll just take the plunge, not knowing any better, and I'd imagine that those types are easier to get over on by offering some "new product" that no one has ever seen. Their target market is more likely to accept this explanation, whereas we wouldn't with some sort of independent, reliable authentication of the product's actual existence. Just one wookie's guess...

 

[Interim]

Yeah this sounds crazy. The cost to get set up would be outrageous for a product that people would most likely stop ordering shortly after they determined it was not even a replica, but a complete FAKE OUT AND OUT.

Is this coming from "J" ? I would be really surprised ( well fairly surprised anyway).. He just does not come accross as someone that would engage in that type of thing. But then again who knows who "j" really is ?

"J's" operational language seems very similar to "M" from SM. The words he uses are identical and "M" had a run a few months ago where he sent out some "Fake" tabs. From what I heard ,"M" made good to most people, but some folks were complaining on his guest book that they had not been taken care of. It could have been people just trying to get something for nothing. i have seen a fair amount of that too.

That said, I would not touch these things with a ten foot pole. No telling what are in them.

 

[Jewbacca]

I have to agree with Interlude. If anything, these are mom and pop bathtub manufacturing operations, and should come and go just as quickly as in the past. The overriding point here that I've written about before is that the ultimate end suppliers (a small number) of all the SY vendor product are not street corner thugs cooking up rock in the kitchen, talking on the phone to their baby momma at the same damn time. In fact, they are very large, very sophisticated business operations. The time and cost required to establish and maintain large organizations like these demand sustainability in whatever business they are pursuing. This is where Interlude's point comes into play. It would make no sense to invest the time and expense necessary to produce counterfeit product on a large scale. The profit margins they enjoy with the real thing are incredibly high, in the 1000's of percent, and jeopardizing that profit stream just makes no sense.

That being said, I am NOT saying in any way that counterfeit pharmaceuticals aren't out there in large numbers, and that there aren't backroom production operations in every neighborhood in various Central and South American countries. I'm also sure some of this product makes it's way to the US by various means. In the case of the Mexican / SY operations though, I have a hard time getting my arms around their participation. As always though, just one wookie's opinion.

 

[ally]

I have to agree with Interlude. If anything, these are mom and pop bathtub manufacturing operations, and should come and go just as quickly as in the past. The overriding point here that I've written about before is that the ultimate end suppliers (a small number) of all the SY vendor product are not street corner thugs cooking up rock in the kitchen, talking on the phone to their baby momma at the same damn time. In fact, they are very large, very sophisticated business operations. The time and cost required to establish and maintain large organizations like these demand sustainability in whatever business they are pursuing. This is where Interlude's point comes into play. It would make no sense to invest the time and expense necessary to produce counterfeit product on a large scale. The profit margins they enjoy with the real thing are incredibly high, in the 1000's of percent, and jeopardizing that profit stream just makes no sense.

That being said, I am NOT saying in any way that counterfeit pharmaceuticals aren't out there in large numbers, and that there aren't backroom production operations in every neighborhood in various Central and South American countries. I'm also sure some of this product makes it's way to the US by various means. In the case of the Mexican / SY operations though, I have a hard time getting my arms around their participation. As always though, just one wookie's opinion.

Maybe they didn't actually make them, but they are buying them already made from someone for like half of what they pay for the reals.
1000's of percent profit? I doubt it unless they pay $0.025 a tablet. That is 2.5 cents. If they got them for that..and sold them for $25.00 a piece..that is a 1000% profit. I very highly doubt they aren't paying more than 2.5 cents per tablet.

 

[Jewbacca]

Maybe they didn't actually make them, but they are buying them already made from someone for like half of what they pay for the reals.

1000's of percent profit? I doubt it unless they pay $0.025 a tablet. That is 2.5 cents. If they got them for that..and sold them for $25.00 a piece..that is a 1000% profit. I very highly doubt they aren't paying more than 2.5 cents per tablet.

Yes, it's certainly conceivable that they could purchase them as opposed to making them, although I don't think there's enough information to really understand what their cost savings would be. As for the profit margins quoted, you've actually got gone slightly over in your calculation. If something costs $1.00, and you sell it for $2.00, you doubled your money, which is a 100% profit, as your return is 100% of your original spent capital. So, to yield a 1000% profit margin on that same item that cost $1.00, you'd have to sell it for $10.00. (100% x 10 = 1000%) Using some real, applicable numbers, an item that is being sold for $25.00 would be yielding a 1000% profit margin if it cost the seller $2.50. ($25.00 / 10 = $2.50) The 2012 pharmacy average wholesale cost (AWC) of M-box 30's is $1.17 per dosage unit, so a 1000% profit margin isn't inconceivable, depending on the supply channel. Given that it's a black market we're talking about, I'm sure they aren't paying AWC pricing, but double that in mass quantity would certainly be somewhere in the ballpark. There are also other manufacturers of the same product with lower AWC's, down to as low as $.81 per dosage unit, so while it's possible that I misspoke when referencing "1000's of percent of profit", I don't think I'm far off, and still believe that it's a 1000% margin, or something very, very close.

Beyond this pricing math, the rest is just conjecture on my part, but from what I know of cartel economics and business models, they consistently take a long view and are quite sophisticated, so I just struggle to think that they'd risk these sizable profits with an existing, recurring customer base for sake of passing off counterfeit pills en masse, but I could be wrong. The other unknown factor is their actual access to supply on an on-going basis. Should their supply dry up, then it's a vastly different story, and I could certainly see them doing anything possible, including creating counterfeit product with another similar opiate as a base, to keep that profit train rolling.

 

[ally]

Yes, it's certainly conceivable that they could purchase them as opposed to making them, although I don't think there's enough information to really understand what their cost savings would be. As for the profit margins quoted, you've actually got gone slightly over in your calculation. If something costs $1.00, and you sell it for $2.00, you doubled your money, which is a 100% profit, as your return is 100% of your original spent capital. So, to yield a 1000% profit margin on that same item that cost $1.00, you'd have to sell it for $10.00. (100% x 10 = 1000%) Using some real, applicable numbers, an item that is being sold for $25.00 would be yielding a 1000% profit margin if it cost the seller $2.50. ($25.00 / 10 = $2.50) The 2012 pharmacy average wholesale cost (AWC) of M-box 30's is $1.17 per dosage unit, so a 1000% profit margin isn't inconceivable, depending on the supply channel. Given that it's a black market we're talking about, I'm sure they aren't paying AWC pricing, but double that in mass quantity would certainly be somewhere in the ballpark. There are also other manufacturers of the same product with lower AWC's, down to as low as $.81 per dosage unit, so while it's possible that I misspoke when referencing "1000's of percent of profit", I don't think I'm far off, and still believe that it's a 1000% margin, or something very, very close.

Beyond this pricing math, the rest is just conjecture on my part, but from what I know of cartel economics and business models, they consistently take a long view and are quite sophisticated, so I just struggle to think that they'd risk these sizable profits with an existing, recurring customer base for sake of passing off counterfeit pills en masse, but I could be wrong. The other unknown factor is their actual access to supply on an on-going basis. Should their supply dry up, then it's a vastly different story, and I could certainly see them doing anything possible, including creating counterfeit product with another similar opiate as a base, to keep that profit train rolling.

Ah, thanks for correcting me. I was never good with numbers.

 

[Jewbacca]

Ah, thanks for correcting me. I was never good with numbers. /default_smile.png

No worries, I teach this crap part time and I still have to check my math. No doubt due to the very products we're talking about! :lol:

 

[Interim]

From what I have seen the SY vendors pricing is very similar to what one would find on the street. O' 80's going for $40.per unit is about what one could get off the street. $7 per on yellows is also about what you would find with your local street vendor "dealer".

From a costing stand point. I would think they have a commercial grade source that pays the AWC price and then resells to the sy vendors at a 200% to 400% mark up. Still allowing the SY vendor to quadruple their money.

The benefit of safety with this whole online purchase verses buying off the street is what has created a demand for their services.

 

[Jewbacca]

From what I have seen the SY vendors pricing is very similar to what one would find on the street. O' 80's going for $40.per unit is about what one could get off the street. $7 per on yellows is also about what you would find with your local street vendor "dealer".

From a costing stand point. I would think they have a commercial grade source that pays the AWC price and then resells to the sy vendors at a 200% to 400% mark up. Still allowing the SY vendor to quadruple their money.

The benefit of safety with this whole online purchase verses buying off the street is what has created a demand for their services.

Exceptionally well said. I absolutely concur, in that the SY groups likely have a mainstream wholesaler in their pocket who obtain the products in quantity at AWC. Given the types of organizations we're talking about, I'm not certain that they would accept their wholesaler making a 400% margin if that's what's their making, but it's more than possible, and just conjecture. Most often, these folks prefer to be the highest member of the profit food chain, which brings me back to my SY Prices -(AWC x 200%) = 1000% profit margin equation. An interesting subject to speculate on, but we'll never know with any level of certainty. Interlude does, however, sum it up far more succinctly than I, and regardless of the actual numbers, that's pretty much the structure and nature of the matter.

Interlude also hits on a point that we hadn't previously discussed, which is the safety of the online purchase system vs. buying on the street. It's that very safety feature that has driven up SY prices to equal that of street dealers. It isn't a big price fixing conspiracy, but simple economics. Any seller will continue to raise prices until demand begins to wane. With the products in question, demand isn't going to wane for them unless buyers have a better option. Since the SY vendors are basically it unless you want to visit Louie the Lip on the corner, then it's pretty logical to assume that the SY vendors will set their prices based on Louie's, which are also a function of demand. So, in summary, it's all about broad market forces, and for us and the products we seek, those forces are street level demand.

Not only do I not think we can really impact pricing in any meaningful way, I also suspect that we haven't seen the last of the price increases. Let's not kid ourselves into forgetting that this market is dominated by recreational use and abuse, which are extremely reckless, powerful and generally irrational market drivers. I'm hoping for the best pricing wise, but expecting the worst, at least long term.

 

[WillyK]

Yes. Offered as "samples" of a "generic."

Yeah this sounds crazy. The cost to get set up would be outrageous for a product that people would most likely stop ordering shortly after they determined it was not even a replica, but a complete FAKE OUT AND OUT.

Is this coming from "J" ? I would be really surprised ( well fairly surprised anyway).. He just does not come accross as someone that would engage in that type of thing. But then again who knows who "j" really is ?

"J's" operational language seems very similar to "M" from SM. The words he uses are identical and "M" had a run a few months ago where he sent out some "Fake" tabs. From what I heard ,"M" made good to most people, but some folks were complaining on his guest book that they had not been taken care of. It could have been people just trying to get something for nothing. i have seen a fair amount of that too.

That said, I would not touch these things with a ten foot pole. No telling what are in them.

 

[abbeyroad]

J has sent me some of the "Pinky's" to try out..

Theyre not great, but theyre definitely not fake.

I prefer the old faithful.

Glad everyone is still having great success with my man J. He is such a kick ass vendor.

 

[WillyK]

You tried them? And they were what they're said to be and not some variation thereof?

 

[acexnx316]

Are these actually/truly "pink"? Or are they just the white M box generics that have been around anyway? Just wondering if someone is actually compounding some via custom/bulk ingredients and having them colored pink? First I've heard of "pink" if we are talking about the type of ingredient that is contained in M box blue/whites? Maybe I've come in a bit late to the conversation and am a bit lost?!

 

[kingsabdula]

I got some too. He sent me two for free. He said they are generic 30's. M/30

 

[kingsabdula]

They are not fake. They taste a little different than the blues.

These pinks are generic 30mg, M/30, and only for $19.00 instead of $25.00. I only tried one and everything seemed fine.

I would rather go with the blues, but since we can buy single pills from J, I will probably buy a few here and there.

 

[Jewbacca]

I'm simply reporting what a trusted vendor with whom I have a 4 year relationship with shared with me. Feel free to purchase what you wish. That said, if you're going to assert that they "are not fake", then please post a link to the manufacturer's information for this product. With all due respect, aside from my vendor's statement, I have several family members in health care in the US, South America and Canada, and none can find anything to confirm the existence of a pink 30MG product. You mention that they are "generic". If so, they still have to be made by someone. Are they indeed "M-Box" imprinted as others have indicated? I'm getting some reports that say yes, others that say no. The only point of commonality is that they are pink, and again, nothing to support their existence in pharmaceutical manufacturing can be located, which concerns me.

I have no reason to dispute your report of the product's physical affects. However, just because you have a familiar reaction does not mean that they are "not fake". My point is that if their manufacturer of origin cannot be identified, then you have no idea what's in them. That, coupled with the knowledge that many long trusted vendors are steering clear of them is enough to prevent me from having an interest in being a guinea pig. But again, to each their own. I hope it works out for you. As for me, I'll pay the extra $6.00 to know what I'm putting into my blood stream.

Do take care...

Jewy

 

[Jewbacca]

J has sent me some of the "Pinky's" to try out..

Theyre not great, but theyre definitely not fake.

I prefer the old faithful.

Glad everyone is still having great success with my man J. He is such a kick ass vendor.

Out of curiosity, what is the appeal of a $19.00 product that "isn't great" and cannot be verified to be a legitimately manufactured product in comparison to a $25.00 product of much higher potency that's origin can be confirmed? I'm just curious what everyone's thought process is here. I suppose I could understand people taking a risk on something that was half price, or something of similar enticement, but at roughly 25% off? The risk just seems to great, at least to me.